Caledon Oxbridge Q&A for 2014-08-31

15:01	Tali Rosca	Welcome to this week's thrilling, chilling instalment of QA with the deans. We will throw open the switches on the sonic oscillator, and attempt to answer your questions about Oxbridge, Caledon and Second Life.
15:01	Tali Rosca	As many of you know, we each have an area of expertise, which you can see here: http://www.caledonoxbridge.org/qna_index.php, but we all have an ear to the ground about what is happening in Caledon and Second Life.
15:02	Tali Rosca	So let us set to it. Who has a question?
15:04	Daisy (thegator)	:0
15:04	Martini Discovolante	nobody?
15:04	Wordsmith Jarvinen	A quiet week?
15:04	Daisy (thegator)	ok, let me think...
15:05	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	Okay, Airship network?
15:05	Daisy (thegator)	what's the best way to try to learn how to build mesh things, from someone who's only ever worked with prims?
15:06	Martini Discovolante	hee- that is my big question too-- Wordsmith?
15:06	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Unless you are already familiar with a 3D modeling software, it's likely best to start gaining some basic familiarity with Blender.
15:06	Tali Rosca	Basically, to learn 3D modeling. That is picking a program (likely Blender), and then finding tutorials.
15:07	Daisy (thegator)	i downloaded Blender. It looked scary :D
15:07	Tali Rosca	I like http://cgcookie.com/blender/
15:07	Daisy (thegator)	I guess that's the way tho
15:07	Wordsmith Jarvinen	There are some basic tutorials at blender.org on the interface.
15:07	Meora (menchor)	there is Mesh Studio
15:07	Daisy (thegator)	ok, thanks
15:07	Tali Rosca	They have a wide range of tutorials, but I don't know if they have *all* starter level.
15:07	Daisy (thegator)	k
15:07	Wordsmith Jarvinen	I teach on class that covers the basics of mesh in SL (updating it at this time).
15:08	Martini Discovolante	Daisy-- i use Mesh Studio.
15:08	Wordsmith Jarvinen	That gives you the SL background.
15:08	Carl Metropolitan	Hello
15:08	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Is it free?
15:08	[noctis] MESH leather wingback chair (LI 13) whispers	(⇞PgUp or ⇟ PgDn ) change your pose. Touch for menu.
15:08	Daisy (thegator)	maybe i'll look into that too then
15:08	Martini Discovolante	it is far from free, but itis relatively easy way to turn what you make in SL into mesh.
15:09	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I went for Blender because it is free..
15:09	Carl Metropolitan	Though it helps if you can move the results into something like Blender and optimize them.
15:09	Martini Discovolante	i am trying to learn Blender, myself, but it is taking its toll.... spenedin the money on Mesh Studio was worth it for me.
15:09	Daisy (thegator)	yup, i'm not keen of spending lots of money, lol
15:09	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	can you do that with Blender I heard there are SL plugins
15:09	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Practicing doing some basic creation in Blender helps.
15:09	Daisy (thegator)	i'm only a casual builder
15:10	Tali Rosca	Personally, I consider something like Mesh Studio a bit of a dead-end. It works, but you're still tethering yourself to SL, with all the limitations and sub-optimal meshes it creates.
15:10	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I see and it is expensive too...
15:10	Daisy (thegator)	yes, that's the other question, actually... i wonder how many of these new skills i'm learning will soon be redundant
15:10	Carl Metropolitan	Blender is ridiculously hard to learn.
15:10	Martini Discovolante	well for me it was Mesh Studio, or hi-prim items.. i chose the tool i need now.
15:10	Tali Rosca	But whether you want to learn "full-blown" 3D modeling is... possibly free money-wise, but certainly not time-wise.
15:11	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	can we transfer what we make here onto blender and say just sclup it a bit
15:11	Red Quixote	it is important to have a good grasp of the concepts *behind* 3D modelling before attempting a program like Blender
15:11	Tali Rosca	Blender has advanced a lot since it earned its reputation for a user interface from hell.
15:11	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	ok SIr Quixote
15:11	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Wings3D is also supposed to be a free option for software.
15:11	Tali Rosca	By now, it is as hard or as easy as pretty much any other full-scale 3D modeling program.
15:12	Daisy (thegator)	yes, i know nothing unfortunately
15:12	Tali Rosca	Wings is poorly suited for SL, though,
15:12	Daisy (thegator)	i don't have design background, i just play at building really
15:12	Larkylouz	There are several places that have classes in more advanced building. Builders Brewery comes to mind.
15:12	Carl Metropolitan	I found Wings even more confusing than Blender, but I'm strange.
15:12	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Can objects be transferred both ways from 3D modellor to SL?
15:13	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	(sorry silly qestion)
15:13	Wordsmith Jarvinen	SL imports Collada files.
15:13	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	ok
15:13	Daisy (thegator)	I hear the LI is wayward aswell with mesh imports
15:13	Tali Rosca	Yes and no. Some clients lets you export SL models to a mesh format which can be read by 3D modeling programs. But the mesh you get is *not* editable like SL prims.
15:14	Wordsmith Jarvinen	So you create an object in the 3D software, export it as a Collada file, and the upload that to SL.
15:14	Mavromichali Szondi	I find that making different models for each Level Of Detail really helps with Land Impact costs on import
15:14	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	This is sad it would have been great though
15:14	Carl Metropolitan	But anything you create in SL and then export as a Collada file will really need to be opitimized before you bring it back inl
15:15	Tali Rosca	-Which is one of the reasons I am not fond of Mesh Studio. It essentially works that way, and creates rather "dirty" models.
15:15	Wordsmith Jarvinen	So, one might say it's good for prototyping, but not for an optimized mesh.
15:16	Tali Rosca	Typically, you'll work with a "master copy" in your 3D modeling program, and optimize and export that to SL.
15:16	Daisy (thegator)	thanks for the advice anyhow, i'll have to tackle blender i think sooner ot later
15:16	Tali Rosca	Having it natively in a full 3D format lets you use all sorts of tools and different programs on it.
15:16	Daisy (thegator)	i shall gator wrestle it, hehe
15:17	Tali Rosca	The version you export to SL is than essentially a "printout" of the final version you have used all the tools to create.
15:17	Martini Discovolante	well, then Blender better look out!
15:17	Wordsmith Jarvinen	There are inworld help groups, such a Blender Users.
15:17	Daisy (thegator)	yup, it had
15:17	Daisy (thegator)	oh right, i'll have to find one of those
15:18		Gronk Seriman raises a hand
15:18	Tali Rosca	Yes, Gronk?
15:18	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Miss Gronk?
15:18	Gronk Seriman	Is it possible to go directly from Makehuman to SL?
15:19	Gronk Seriman	I have had no luck with that.
15:19	Daisy (thegator)	from what?
15:19	Daisy (thegator)	is that another MMO?
15:19	Tali Rosca	To the best of my knowledge, no. They do have an "export to SL" option, but it was coded "blind", by someone only reading the specification, without actively testing against SL.
15:19	Gronk Seriman	MakeHuman is a free open-source human modeller.
15:19	Daisy (thegator)	ah
15:19	Tali Rosca	And there are issues with in particular the facing.
15:20	Red Quixote	you'd have to rig your figure in Blender or some other such 3D app
15:20	Tali Rosca	Conventionally, a human 3D model is created facing along the Y axis, but SL uses a facing along the X axis, and that creates all sorts of problems.
15:20	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Make the shape and bring it into Blender, and then rig it, Red?
15:20	Gronk Seriman	http://www.makehuman.org/
15:20	Tali Rosca	I think MakeHuman runs into that.
15:21	Red Quixote	that would be your best bet,. Tali has already done this procedure
15:21	Gronk Seriman	So I AM going to have to learn Blender in any case. Drat!
15:21	Daisy (thegator)	sooo where's www.makegator.org? lol
15:21	Tali Rosca	I did get a mesh from MakeHuman through Blender into SL, but I can't say I found the *best* way to do it.
15:22	Tali Rosca	Well, they have http://www.makehuman.org/blog/makecow_alpha_1_released.html
15:22	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	how can a student help out? a bit off topic...
15:22	Daisy (thegator)	aw. Makecow? yum!
15:22	Red Quixote	builder's brewery also offers a series of classes on rigging,. but they are early morning classes.. unless that fits your schedule Gronk
15:24	Wordsmith Jarvinen	As to helping, after avatars have been inworld for a while, Martini runs our tutor program.
15:24	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Ok. Great. I'm interested in that. You also learn a lot that way.
15:25	Tali Rosca	The best place to start is likely to pitch in in the COUG group if you have the answer to a question somebody has there.
15:25	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	ok
15:26	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Does the University focus only on SL skills
15:26	Tali Rosca	Only skills which can be used in SL.
15:26	Martini Discovolante	yes.
15:26	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	or wouls it be inclined to do other things like poetry or meditation classes.
15:26	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Yes. We don't extend in the outside world.
15:26	Martini Discovolante	sorry0 i crashed and missed somethign i think.
15:26	Tali Rosca	Something like 3D modeling is a good example of a general skill with specific SL application.
15:26	Mavromichali Szondi	The Jagers used to do a great poetry slam night each week :P
15:27	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Ok.
15:27	Wordsmith Jarvinen	A question relating to the tutorial program, Martini.
15:27	Martini Discovolante	you cacan change the t sun's position for your viewer.
15:27	Martini Discovolante	oops sorry WW.
15:27	Larkylouz	found poetry - all based on ww posts!
15:27	Wordsmith Jarvinen	For those interested in helping, as they acquire skills.
15:28	Martini Discovolante	oh we ask that prospective tutors be over 2-3 months old, and know not just the tutorial, but the steamlands well also
15:28	Wordsmith Jarvinen	There are writing and poetry groups in SL.
15:28	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	There are regions with poetry readings.
15:28	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	Book Island's Open Mic, for example.
15:28	Larkylouz	There's most anything you want, somewhere in SL.
15:28	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Ok.
15:29	Daisy (thegator)	Yes, I know a bit about the book events
15:29		Tali Rosca nods. "Oxbridge is a community gateway as well as a teaching area, so the staff here are all somehow involved with the Steamlands, Caledon in particular."
15:29	Daisy (thegator)	Look at my profile, I'm a member of several bookish-writer groups
15:29	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I see
15:29	Daisy (thegator)	Book Island is the biggest, but I like Written Word and Bookstacks better personally
15:32	Tali Rosca	Did that cover things? Other questions?
15:32	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Another one is Virtual Writers, Inc
15:32	Daisy (thegator)	Is that active? I'll check it out. A lot seem pretty dead
15:32	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Yes...
15:33	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	When I first came here I thought it was an RL academic institution
15:33	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	with a campus on SL
15:33	Mavromichali Szondi	These days it's probably run better than some RL ones.....
15:33	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	well I want to know if there are academic groups
15:34	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	like for medicine specifically
15:34	Wordsmith Jarvinen	The education is real enough, but it is for a virtual world.
15:34	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I see
15:34	Daisy (thegator)	Cool, i'm a member now, missed that one :p
15:34	Tali Rosca	There *are* such RL organizations with an inworld campus.
15:34	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I am sure soon there will be SL institutions
15:35	Mavromichali Szondi	I have seen medical training sims in SL - very interesting stuff
15:35	Daisy (thegator)	i can imagine... :o
15:35	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Mr Szondi do you have a LM?
15:35	Carl Metropolitan	SL really has two "educational communities"
15:35	Carl Metropolitan	First here is an educational community made up employees of real life universities and institutions that have a presence in Second Life. (not us) Then there is an educational community of resident-run and resident-financed help and education organizations that exist solely (or mostly) inside Second Life. (this is us)
15:35	Mavromichali Szondi	I don't, I'm afraid. It was some work I did for a RL body and as such I'm under a NDA as to who it was, and what we did.
15:36	Carl Metropolitan	One difference is we never make people sign NDAs :)
15:36	Larkylouz	Yes, and I know htere is an active labor and birthing community in SL that uses SL as a training forum for RL purposes.
15:36	Tali Rosca	There is also a 3rd category which purely use virtual worlds and online classrooms, though they are less common than you'd think.
15:37	Martini Discovolante	yes.. there was a language school, tho i forget the name.
15:37	chela (chelahh)	virtlantis
15:37	Tali Rosca	And yes, there are of course a lot of *communities* which gather around various topics.
15:37		Tali Rosca nods. "Language schools are big in that "purely digital" niche."
15:38	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Another poetry group -- Blue Angel VIP, which is a dive bar for poetry.
15:39	Larkylouz	"Diving into the Wreck"
15:39	Steadman Kondor	There are different voice poetry readings too, using SL voice. You can read or recite or perform yourself, or as the organiser to read for you
15:40	Tali Rosca	But even if our focus is on skills which can be used in SL, things like 3D modeling and scripting teaches generally usable principles in the respective fields.
15:40	Mavromichali Szondi	wonders if it's an actual underwater bar, seeing as this is SL
15:40	Tali Rosca	The photography class also teaching things like composition, which is certainly relevant outside SL.
15:41	Mavromichali Szondi	Miss DIscovolante: a question
15:41	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I see
15:41	Larkylouz	Many, but not all, of the photographers in PS do photography in both worlds.
15:42	Martini Discovolante	i use a lot of the textures i made for here in RL applications
15:42	Daisy (thegator)	Actually, I learnt to use GIMP a bit for SL. But then it proved invaluable for designing my e-book cover for Amazon
15:43	Carl Metropolitan	It works the other way, too. I used to buy textures in SL before I realized that so many of them were ripped from the web. Now I find textures on the web and follow the licenses :)
15:43	Tali Rosca	SL can often be the hobby which sparks a desire to learn some tool, which then goes on to become quite useful.
15:43	Red Quixote	I create my own textures from scratch these daya
15:43	Red Quixote	*days
15:44	Daisy (thegator)	yes, i'm finding there's quite a lot of free to use textures online
15:44	Carl Metropolitan	And sadly a lot of people in SL, selling them :(
15:44	Mavromichali Szondi	we're not all so talented, Red. I do miss Nix Sands work.
15:44	Red Quixote	aye,.. likewise
15:44	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	I want to build bones and viruses for display like the whale bones in the hall of caledon
15:44	Daisy (thegator)	yup, very sad
15:44	Tali Rosca	Cue rant about ToS here.
15:44	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	except for humans
15:44	Tali Rosca	It is very hard to actually follow the licenses if you use it in SL.
15:44	Carl Metropolitan	That would be very cool.
15:45	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	respecting the anatomical considerations...the ratios...the various bony prominences
15:45	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	but I will need a lot of learning
15:45	Mavromichali Szondi	Q: If this hasn't been asked already, what do you see for the future growth of Oxbridge, particularly with the changes in LL and their new platform?
15:46	Daisy (thegator)	i saw some mesh bones for sale at Builders Brewery. I doubt they were anatomically correct tho. Still, they looked good for gnawing!
15:46	Tali Rosca	If you mean (the unnamed) SL2, our approach is generally not to worry.
15:46	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Given that their new platform is at least several years in the future, it's hard to say yet.
15:46	Carl Metropolitan	We are pretty much ignoring the new platform for now.
15:46	Mavromichali Szondi	wait til things settle eh?
15:47	Tali Rosca	We teach skills. If SL2 catches on, the teachers will learn the skills needed for that, and will be as willing to teach them there.
15:47	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	All we have about SL2 is pure groundless speculation.
15:47	Wordsmith Jarvinen	However, the buildings here are gradually being updated to be mesh rather than prim-based.
15:47	Mavromichali Szondi	Regards bones: I found the old Sculpt studio great for stuff like that - I believe you can export SS stuff to mesh studio
15:47	Daisy (thegator)	My greatest fear with SL -- that I won't be able to move myself, this avatar, which is no copy, no modify, and the creator is long since gone may he RIP
15:48	Daisy (thegator)	Move myself to SL 2.0 I meant to say
15:48	Carl Metropolitan	Also, it depends on whether Caledon established a presence in SL2. If it does, Oxbridge would be more likely to follow.
15:48	Mavromichali Szondi	It's interesting how we become attached to our virtual selves isn't it
15:48	Tali Rosca	And that in turn likely depends on whether SL as a whole moves to SL2.
15:48	Daisy (thegator)	I'm terribly attached to my cute little self, lol
15:49	Martini Discovolante	it is all speculation at this point.
15:49	Tali Rosca	I think it all is much a matter of how seamlessly LL can transition the existing avatars and communities to SL2.
15:49	Mavromichali Szondi	nods; very much an unknown quantity - best to sit and see
15:49	Tali Rosca	And that is certainly something they are focusing on.
15:49	Daisy (thegator)	I will eat someone if I can't move! I'll be that unhappy snappy about it!
15:49	Tali Rosca	So by and large, we go where the community is, and do what we're doing.
15:50	Mavromichali Szondi	fair enough
15:50	Daisy (thegator)	I will eat all the Lindens!
15:50	Tali Rosca	Whether that is in an updated SL1 with three years of advanced from now, or in SL2 likely doesn't make all that much difference for Oxbridge as an operation,
15:51		Larkylouz is starting to be quite amused by Ms. Daisy's trouble-coping skills.
15:51	Carl Metropolitan	SL2 might be the greatest thing ever, and still fail. That's why LL is making sure everyone knows SL is not going anywhere. This is their cash cow
15:51	Red Quixote	moo
15:51	Mavromichali Szondi	you beat me to it, Red
15:51	Red Quixote	;)
15:51	lovejoy2199	lol @ both of you.
15:52	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	are chat spies legal on this sim?
15:52	Carl Metropolitan	No
15:52	Wordsmith Jarvinen	We are affected, however, by what LL does with and to those coming into SL. For example avatars that are essentially uncustomizable create more problems for us.
15:52	Carl Metropolitan	I think they are against the Caledon Covenant.
15:52	Martini Discovolante	i do not believe they are legal anywhere.
15:52	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	ok
15:52	Carl Metropolitan	And probably the ToS
15:52	Carl Metropolitan	for SL in general
15:52	Martini Discovolante	why do you ask?
15:52	Daisy (thegator)	what are uncustomizable avatars?
15:52	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	because a person on a sim had one on
15:53	Mavromichali Szondi	I have to admit the new "cool" mesh avatars in the library, with their non-changeable, non-standard clothing was a disappointment, even though they looked cool
15:53	Daisy (thegator)	Never heard of them
15:53	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	i challenged him he said it was his sim
15:53	Daisy (thegator)	oh, mesh avatars?
15:53	Mavromichali Szondi	half the fun is making me who I am, and changing how I look
15:54	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Mesh avatars that ignore what standards there are in SL.
15:54	Mavromichali Szondi	What self-respecting Jager wouldn't have a whole wardrobe of hats for every occasion?
15:54	Carl Metropolitan	Basically, LL didn't know what they were doing with them I think.
15:54	Daisy (thegator)	no fun if I can't change my dress every now and then
15:54	Tali Rosca	The starter mesh avatars suffer badly from the "drop a half-finished design and run away from it" approach.
15:55	Martini Discovolante	More liek "get the client to sign off on it and run after the check clears"
15:55	Daisy (thegator)	i think i know, you mean the dinkies... and i've seen animals, wolves and deer and things that look all mesh
15:55	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Things like that have a greater impact on us that the question of what platform.
15:55	Mavromichali Szondi	I was more worried by the fact that it meant every 5th person would look exactly the same as you
15:55	ecc0 Spearmann (ecc02)	Thank you all, Iam off to sleep 3am here. C u.
15:55	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Thanks for coming.
15:55	Mavromichali Szondi	g'night
15:56	Andrea Jones (andreajonesms)	Night
15:56	Daisy (thegator)	most people already look the same to me :p
15:56	Mavromichali Szondi	all the pink people ^^
15:56	Daisy (thegator)	all those tall pink people,
15:56	Daisy (thegator)	YESH
15:56	Wordsmith Jarvinen	As in "tastey"?
15:56	Tali Rosca	All those naked apes.
15:56	Daisy (thegator)	yesh, they all look like dinner to me
15:56	Meora (menchor)	we all look like food
15:56	Carl Metropolitan	I wrote about the problems with the mesh avatars a few months back.
15:56	Carl Metropolitan	http://jcarlhenders.tumblr.com/post/85883235654/vampire-is-the-new-black-a-look-at-second-lifes-new
15:57	Mavromichali Szondi	yeah I read that, Carl
15:57	Carl Metropolitan	And here's another post (this one from Brace Coral) on their issues:
15:57	Carl Metropolitan	http://brace-coral.livejournal.com/129601.html
15:57	Mavromichali Szondi	fortunately this is a free-ish market, and someone will undoubtably come along with a product that is decent and will fix the issues for a reasonable price
15:58	Meora (menchor)	There are competing mesh avatars being produced
15:58	Tali Rosca	I still think it would make sense to adopt MakeHuman as the defacto standard.
15:58	Carl Metropolitan	LL does standards only by accident
15:58	Mavromichali Szondi	I like my avatar and it hasn't cost me a great deal, and it's a mix of stuff from various years
15:58	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Yes, the problem mainly affects those who immediately want to adjust their looks before the know the market for avatars.
15:58	Tali Rosca	It is a really well laid out human mesh, specifically designed for things like this.
15:59	Mavromichali Szondi	I'll have to take a look at makehuman: I've not come across it before this session
15:59	Tali Rosca	I think that's it for today; we're out of time, and this seems like a good place to stop.
16:00	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Thank you all for coming and contributing.
16:00	Carl Metropolitan	Thank you everyone.
16:00	Larkylouz	Thank you, Deans and commuity
16:00	Daisy (thegator)	it was fun and i learnt some things!
16:00	Larkylouz	*community
16:00	Martini Discovolante	thanks everyone for comign! and great quetions!
16:00		Larkylouz learned how hungry gators are!
16:00	Carl Metropolitan	Oh? We will work on that Daisy. Fun is not allowed!
16:01	Andrea Jones (andreajonesms)	And dragons Larky
16:01	Daisy (thegator)	hehe, gators are full of fun
16:01	Gronk Seriman	Thank you, Deans!
16:01	Daisy (thegator)	we're always smiling you know
16:01	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	Bedtime for me.
16:01	Andrea Jones (andreajonesms)	Tnank you deans.
16:01	Mavromichali Szondi	fun, bacon and waffles