Caledon Oxbridge Q&A for 2014-07-06

15:00	Tali Rosca	Welcome to another week's QA with the Deans. This is a free-form questions-and-answers session, where we - the deans of Oxbridge - will try to answer questions about Oxbridge, Caledon and SL in general. -Or crowdsource an answer from the audience.
15:00	Tali Rosca	We each have an area of expertise, as listed here: http://www.caledonoxbridge.org/qna_index.php.
15:00	Tali Rosca	So with the introduction done, who has the first question?
15:01	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Hearing no immediate clamor, Red would you like to say something about your class change?
15:01	Red Quixote	I'll try
15:02	Red Quixote	it is with little or no fanfare that the very last Intro to Sculpties class was taught this past week,.. but a new class will rise in it's place
15:03	Wordsmith Jarvinen	(soon to be on the schedule, like later today)
15:03	Red Quixote	it will be called Animation Office Hour, and I will assist students and scholars with their animation related projects
15:03	Red Quixote	and maybe come up with an extra offering or two :)
15:00	Tali Rosca	So with the introduction done, who has the first question?
15:01	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Hearing no immediate clamor, Red would you like to say something about your class change?
15:01	Red Quixote	I'll try
15:02	Red Quixote	it is with little or no fanfare that the very last Intro to Sculpties class was taught this past week,.. but a new class will rise in it's place
15:03	Wordsmith Jarvinen	(soon to be on the schedule, like later today)
15:03	Red Quixote	it will be called Animation Office Hour, and I will assist students and scholars with their animation related projects
15:03	Red Quixote	and maybe come up with an extra offering or two :)
15:04	Carl Metropolitan	That sounds like a good class.
15:04	Carl Metropolitan	I have a question: Do we have an Oxbridge notecard or posters on helping new users transition from the mesh starter avatars to avatars they can dress and change?
15:04	Red Quixote	that would be the pervue of an avatar appearance class
15:05	Tali Rosca	No, to my knowledge we still don't have an "official" response to the new mesh avatars.
15:05	Ravelli Ormstein	sadly no
15:05	Wordsmith Jarvinen	I believe that Miss Kidd is working on an avatar appearance class.
15:05	Tali Rosca	Though I believe several people have prepared their own note cards.
15:05	Tali Rosca	Perhaps one of those could be adapted and adopted as the "official" explanation.
15:05	Larkylouz	I could write a rough draft if someone wants to make a sign from it or something. Instruction on choosing a Classic avatar.
15:05	Martini Discovolante	i for one tell folks to select a CLASSIC avatar, if they care to modify their appearance
15:06	Larkylouz	Ah, sounds like folks have already written
15:06	Ravelli Ormstein	Larky, that would be great. because i want to add something about it to the tutorial too
15:06	Carl Metropolitan	Okay. I was going to suggest maybe a four poster sequence on the opposite wall of the Avatar hall (like we have for buying L$ on the Land & L$ hall)
15:06	Martini Discovolante	or to select a whole av from the avatar tab.
15:06	Tali Rosca	That's a good point. Remember that the "Classic" is still an option in the tabs.
15:06	Larkylouz	That is pretty far in from the beginning, is my observation.
15:07	Martini Discovolante	explaining the difference between mesh and Classic is just overwhelming, nd will not add substantially to theier beginning experience.
15:08	Tali Rosca	You very quickly get very deep into rather obscure SL quirks.
15:08	Larkylouz	No - they just need to know how to loose that fugly look.
15:08	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	"MEsh avatars are kind of new and not really modifiable yet. If you want to experiment, try the classic versions"
15:08	Martini Discovolante	they jsut want a pretty frock ;-)
15:08	Wordsmith Jarvinen	To one that can be modified to adapt to their wishes.
15:08	Tali Rosca	"Choose Classic; then you can play with the sliders and the library inventory" seems like the easiest answer which gets people going.
15:08	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	perhaps a simple poster with a picture of how to do it would suffice without detailing it...or in the poster suggesting taking a class to understand more
15:09	Martini Discovolante	it has ot be Easy-Do.
15:09	Carl Metropolitan	Okay.
15:09	Ravelli Ormstein	in the survey some people complain about clothing, and that they miss information in the tutorial
15:09	Carl Metropolitan	I've been updating the "Post Graduate Studies" posters. I've finished two of the four.
15:10	Larkylouz	Is it possible to have them choose either a male or female classic avatar from the sign?
15:10	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	that would be good
15:10	Martini Discovolante	perhaps add to the class schedule ~ "LL Mesh Avatars ~ a three Hour Lecture on Why we Can't Have nice Things"
15:10	Tali Rosca	I can definitely understand that. By now, the SL clothing/avatar system is an insane zig-zag run between legacy quirks.
15:10	Ravelli Ormstein	so i'm considering to change it a lil bit and add some few additional posters. some of the existing ones are overwhelming, too much text, so i split them a lil bit
15:10	Larkylouz	Ravelli, women in particular waant to know about clothing first thing.
15:10	Larkylouz	LOL Martini
15:10	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	yeah that was the frist thing I wanted to do after joining is change my outfit
15:11	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	so for some it'll be important
15:11	Wordsmith Jarvinen	The real reason of participating in SL -- clothing choices at a fraction of the RL cost.
15:11	Tali Rosca	A bad side effect of the new mesh avatars seems to be that people are less aware that they can mix and match their own look.
15:11	Tali Rosca	Believing they have to find a place to buy a whole new avatar.
15:12	Tali Rosca	-Which, as those avatars go, is pretty much true.
15:12	Steadman Kondor	they can take off their shirts pants or hair... like the default
15:12	Martini Discovolante	yus. it is a bit of a mess.
15:12	Steadman Kondor	it's just that they might not find replacements that fit
15:12	Carl Metropolitan	Yes, then they have the horrid skins :)
15:13	Tali Rosca	Yes, they will have trouble finding a sensible replacement.
15:13	Steadman Kondor	clearasil anyone?
15:13	Red Quixote	how about a cracker?
15:13	Tali Rosca	But in any case, that's "state of the art" now; we'll have to guide people through it.
15:13	Ravelli Ormstein	yup
15:14	Martini Discovolante	luckily the mesh ones have (mesh) after the name in inv.
15:15	Tali Rosca	Any other questions/topics?
15:15	Ravelli Ormstein	Aloha Vicereine!
15:15	LeAnn Artis	Are any of you wearing a mesh av/are you planning to?
15:15	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I wear a mesh body
15:15	Ravelli Ormstein	not me
15:15	Camden McAndrews	Hmm... no mesh at all
15:15	Satanico Marquis	Me, I'll have a mesh avatar
15:15	Martini Discovolante	when i am a kitty, i am all mesh.
15:15	Kamilah Hauptmann	Ahoy. :)
15:16	Crystal Edelmann	No mesh for me either
15:16	Steadman Kondor	i may when i can create my own... but i wear mesh clothes often
15:16	Tali Rosca	I don't really have the option of a mesh body which suits my look.
15:16	Red Quixote	ahoy Kami
15:16	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Welcome, Vicerine.
15:16	Martini Discovolante	welcoem Vicerienne!
15:16	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	some of the newer mesh bodies have built in alphas
15:16	Satanico Marquis	I have made my own mesh avi ...
15:16	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	so you can wear any mesh outfit with them
15:16	Tali Rosca	For me. it's more a matter of the skin.
15:17	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	the new ones can take skin appliers as well...
15:17	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I think a lot you can make your own
15:17	Steadman Kondor	built in alphas is much needed. ebben linden spent 30 min of his VWPBE talk this year shirtless to me
15:17	Carl Metropolitan	I know there are designers working on full mesh skins that are supposed to be compatible with all the slink stuff that's so popular these days and with standard sizes.
15:17	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Nods ... feline skin needs to be a bit loose and a bit tough..
15:17	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	yeah I don't understand why they didn't take the time to add them to the avatars for the starters
15:18	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	would have been less confusing
15:18	Tali Rosca	The concept of "alpha masks" is pretty confusing in itself.
15:18	Martini Discovolante	i wish they would just paint on some underdrawers.
15:18	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	true but less so then...nothing fits your avatar ever unless you use an avatar under it
15:18	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	that's just completely bizarre really
15:19	Camden McAndrews	Fitted Mesh ought to eliminate the need for alphas, except for modesty. It's not quite there yet.
15:19	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	it would n't for a mesh body....
15:19	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	the clothing worn over it would have to fit that body and be rigged to match it
15:19	Tali Rosca	It would, if the mesh body was fitted with the same parameters.
15:19	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	or it would poke through without built in alphas
15:20	Tali Rosca	The problem is that there is no standard for that rigging, and LL missed the opportunity badly when introducing the new mesh avatars.
15:20	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	very ture
15:20	Larkylouz	The LL mesh avis do have issues that regular mesh avatars do not, right?
15:20	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	*true even
15:21	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	yes if youmean the "classic" avatar
15:21	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	no if you mean other mesh avatars
15:21	Tali Rosca	Not really. Mesh avatars are mesh avatars. The problem is, if you, say, set your slider to 50%, how thick should your waist be "by standard" in fitted mesh?
15:21	LeAnn Artis	Will SL2 have those issues "corrected", as in, will there be standard sizes, standard rigging? Or do we know yet?
15:21	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	no one knows yet
15:22	Tali Rosca	Without such a standard, fitted mesh do not match each other (including fitted mesh avatars).
15:22	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	it's not even in alpha
15:22	Martini Discovolante	nooooobody knows
15:22	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	that game...it's a mystery
15:22	Tali Rosca	I strongly suspect, but that it a wild guess purely by me, that there will be no built-in standard avatar.
15:23	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	how would people create outfits for the avatar then withno built in standred? Wouldn't that lead to a fairly broken market?
15:23	Carl Metropolitan	I don't think LL even knows yet.
15:23	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	worse then SL's
15:23	Tali Rosca	It simply doesn't make sense to have (and use processing power) on an avatar which everybody then turns invisible so they can use something else.
15:23	Camden McAndrews	They'll need to have some starter folks for new users, though. Those are likely to become a standard.
15:23	Tali Rosca	They will probably have standard *examples*. But creating a mesh avatar would *replace* those completely; not be worn on top.
15:24	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	they'd have to come up with some kind of standred for fitting clothing to them though
15:24	Camden McAndrews	Yes, that's what I'd expect the next generation to be.
15:24	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	unless all the clothing was made for each brand
15:24	Martini Discovolante	ugh.
15:24	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	Welcome to the RL clothes size conundrums...
15:24	Tali Rosca	This makes it doubly bad that LL dropped the ball on standardizing now.
15:24	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	and what of texture only artists who now are making clothing on shirt layers?
15:25	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I geuss they'd need to learn to model?
15:25	Carl Metropolitan	I think that creators of clothing need to organize and meet with the Lindens like the education community has done.
15:25	Martini Discovolante	or get the templates form the originator.
15:25	Tali Rosca	I have been advocating adopting the MakeHuman mesh as a defacto standard. It's a very well laid out mesh.
15:25	Camden McAndrews	That kind of worked for The Sims 2. There was a library standard body shapes that everyone used, so clothes worked. But all those li'l people were the same height and had the same waist.
15:25	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	yeah they really...really....really need to do that carl
15:25	Martini Discovolante	that is what i do with my Dinkie Kitty avatar.
15:26	Camden McAndrews	That "library" in The Sim 2 was the work of one fan. Well done, so univerally accepted.
15:27	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	the sims 2 uses one kind of human model though
15:27	Tali Rosca	http://www.makehuman.org/ , for those who do not know it.
15:27	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	something like that would be good
15:27	Camden McAndrews	Madeline, yes. "Sims" are very restricted, albeit with some morphs much better than SL avatars.
15:28	Ravelli Ormstein	Make Human is around for an entire decade, thats good
15:28	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	really a better morph set and model would satisify most players
15:28	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I think most of the issue with the avatar now is based on it's poor modelling and rigging
15:28		Wordsmith Jarvinen Thinks ... make proto-simian, make proto-saurian, make -proto-feline....
15:28	Camden McAndrews	Oh neat! I hadn't heard about Make Human before. Will it export a .dae file?
15:29	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	since most people have human or human like avatars
15:29	Tali Rosca	Yes; it can export Collada. It even has an "Export to SL", but it was made "flying blind", without actually testing against SL, so it doesn't really work.
15:30	Tali Rosca	The programmers of the exporter just got some information about how the avatar skeleton was set up, and tried to export to that.
15:30		Gronk Seriman cheers! Makehumanfinally made to the V1's!
15:31	Tali Rosca	They are even at 1.0.1!
15:32	Red Quixote	so,.. you could theoretically upload said generated avatar into Blender, and correct any severe bogeys with the rig
15:32		Tali Rosca nods. "I've done that."
15:32	Steadman Kondor	seems like we have reached the av limit with this Q&A
15:32	Camden McAndrews	I see 19 in the region at the moment.
15:33	Steadman Kondor	1 just dropped after i spoke
15:33	Martini Discovolante	it has been over 18-21 since we started.
15:33	Red Quixote	and how did it turn out Tali?
15:33	Ravelli Ormstein	its pending around the 20 since a while
15:33	Satanico Marquis	took me 10 minutes to come in, earlier
15:33	Carl Metropolitan	This post by Ebbe on the forum may be relevant to the question of mesh bodies.
15:33	Carl Metropolitan	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/m-p/2759686#M186052
15:33	Tali Rosca	Fairly well, though there are still issues with making nice bends at the shoulders. But that's more a matter of doing a good skinning than with MakeHuman.
15:34	Tali Rosca	I just copied weights over from the default avatar.
15:34	Red Quixote	you can tweak such things with a bit of weight painting
15:34	Tali Rosca	The MakeHuman topology is very well laid out. It has been refined literally over years.
15:34	Camden McAndrews	I read Ebbe's note to be a reponse to "we'll use bones instead of scripts to move objects."
15:34	Ravelli Ormstein	so, skeletons even for animated objects
15:35	Camden McAndrews	That's how I read it, Ravelli.
15:35	Carl Metropolitan	I think I will help out the sim crowding problem and leave early. I'm not feeling that great in RL. See you all later.
15:35	Wordsmith Jarvinen	That's in accord with a comment by Nyx Linden during mesh development.
15:35	Martini Discovolante	feel better, Carl!
15:35	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	feel better carl
15:35	Wordsmith Jarvinen	tc Carl.
15:35	Tali Rosca	Which jibes well with my thought of not having a set standard avatar. Everything is rigged to an uploaded custom skeleton.
15:35	Red Quixote	that is somewhat logical, if it is the only avenue to create a hierarchical linkset
15:36	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I dunno I just worry about how complex it'll be to dress that kind of avatar set...outside of a make human type deal
15:36	Wordsmith Jarvinen	There was also a comment a that time about generalized skeletons.
15:37	Tali Rosca	Obviously, the community *will have* to standardize on a humanoid shape to market to.
15:37	Tali Rosca	But having custom skeleton means that you can make, say, four-legged creatures fully rigged.
15:37	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	since most people use human avatars
15:37	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	I'd think a really good looking standred model given to start for everyone would be more effectient
15:37	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	let people skin that make it extremely customizable like the make human
15:38	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	that kinda thing maybe have a few built in simple outfits artists can texture as well
15:38	Tali Rosca	That doesn't preclude that the underlying technology is an arbitrary skeleton and mesh.
15:38	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	but still allow for custom bones on top of that perhaps
15:38	Tali Rosca	There is no point in having a hard-coded special case for one type of objects.
15:39	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Nyx Linden (2010-12-06): "Topic 1: Will we have the ability to deform meshes with the body sliders not connected to bones? i.e.: butt, breast, hip, muscle.". "Answer: No! Sorry, morphs are expensive. skeletal animation is where it's at!"
15:39	Tali Rosca	Even if the *market* has a defacto standard.
15:39	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	but at least setting a standred model everyone could get access to would be good
15:39	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Nyx Linden (2010-12-06): Topic 2: "Will we have the ability to create custom skeletons for animation, or add custom bones to the SL skeleton i.e.: fingers, toes & tails?" "Answer: not yet! We'd *like* to look at more complex skeletons, maybe even custom skeletons, but it won't be for the initial release." Nothing has yet happened on custom skeletons.
15:39	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	like in a library
15:39	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	maybe not defualt added.
15:39	Emily (madeline.blackbart)	and provide the .dae on the webpage?
15:40	Tali Rosca	That's 2010-12-06. I assume that was about the *current* mesh implementation?
15:40	Red Quixote	that would seem likely
15:40	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Those were Nyx's comments during initial mesh implementation.
15:40	Tali Rosca	In any case, we're just speculating wildly.
15:41	Camden McAndrews	I'd guess it was about the earliest implementation of mesh.
15:41	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Right. That was original skeleton, not fitted mesh.
15:41	Tali Rosca	Let us give this topic a rest, at least for a while, and see if there are any other questions which pertains to a nearer future.
15:41	Wordsmith Jarvinen	But the statement about bones not morphs is still revealing.
15:44	Tali Rosca	If not, we can continue speculating wildly :-)
15:44	Red Quixote	lol
15:44	Steadman Kondor	:)
15:44	Steadman Kondor	Very quickly then -
15:45	Camden McAndrews	One of the great things about Oxbridge is that folks can speculate wildly and keep it positive. :)
15:45	Steadman Kondor	I had offered some land and primmage in village to the faculty for consideration, as mentioned last week
15:45	Steadman Kondor	for a 2nd temp lecture hall
15:45	Steadman Kondor	that can accommodate more than 20 avs
15:45	Larkylouz	We filled up in the pbhoto salon last night, and now for the Q&A
15:45	Tali Rosca	I am running some statistics to see how often we actually hit the limit.
15:45	Steadman Kondor	A response was received - that it wasnt needed as there are other university lots and primmage
15:46	Camden McAndrews	I think the Deans session has been hitting 20 fairly consistently.
15:46	Steadman Kondor	Yes - so the current status I believe - is measurement to justify the organisational efforts needed for changes
15:46	Meora (menchor)	Has anyone looked at getting the educational discount on Oxbridge and going back to a full sim?
15:47		Ravelli Ormstein coughs
15:47	Steadman Kondor	mr metropolitan raised that at the VWBPE earlier this year.
15:47	Red Quixote	how about moving the high capacity lectures/events to the room with greater capacity?
15:47	Martini Discovolante	we are not an official educational facility-- those are for RL organizations
15:47	Steadman Kondor	during the talk with Ebbe LInden
15:47	Steadman Kondor	For me the benefits of a full sim lecture hall is considerable - bigger classes, bigger exposure for our sponsor
15:47	Steadman Kondor	*sponsors
15:47	Wordsmith Jarvinen	There was some hit of a minor possibility, I believe.
15:47	Ravelli Ormstein	well, i looked at the general costs of changing back to full region: it would cost an upgrade fee of 625 or 675 USD --- just to upgrade...
15:48	Martini Discovolante	and 3x the money.
15:48	Martini Discovolante	monthly
15:48	Meora (menchor)	educational discounted rate is $150
15:48	Tali Rosca	Frankly, Ebbe Linden has "hinted at" pretty much everything, and we have yet to see any organizational or legal changes from LL.
15:48	Gronk Seriman	Wow!
15:48	Red Quixote	that is a steep increase
15:49	Tali Rosca	So I am not holding my breath.
15:49	Camden McAndrews	It would be less expensive to just add on a new full region with a nice auditorium.
15:49	Martini Discovolante	it was brough tup during our meetign with Ebbe Linden, adn no response has been received
15:49	Tali Rosca	We'll just have to work with the known quantities we have.
15:49	Ravelli Ormstein	*625 USD is correct
15:49	Martini Discovolante	and we do have space in the Village that will suffice for whatever classes run consistently over.
15:50	Steadman Kondor	nods
15:50	Steadman Kondor	at no extra cost
15:50	Martini Discovolante	but consistency is the byword
15:50	Martini Discovolante	so class X will always be there.
15:50	Larkylouz	Forgive me for asking a question without technical knowledge backup, but would it work to make a temporary (as in only rezzed when needed) classroom abouve the sandbox?
15:50	Steadman Kondor	yes i agree, which is why careful consideration is needed before rejigging the current set up
15:51	Steadman Kondor	the sandbox is under-utilised, i've been told...
15:51	Meora (menchor)	and you could use a holodeck t orez it
15:51	Steadman Kondor	just rezzing a one-off classroom is not that much effort..
15:52	Tali Rosca	It has been fairly quiet up there lately.
15:52	Steadman Kondor	it's more the communication to the participants
15:52	Steadman Kondor	and the need for consistency of venue
15:52	Martini Discovolante	it is there, and it comes out of the primmage belonging to the Commonwealth of Caledon.
15:53	Red Quixote	I would like to raise a concern that occurred to me, that is,.. potential need for 'defense' in this hypothetical classroom
15:53	Steadman Kondor	if a class is redirected to a different temp venue, i suppose a big sign could be put on the normal lecture venue - with a landmark
15:53	Tali Rosca	We will, once again, have to underscore that Oxbridge University is merely a renter in Caledon, though we *do* get some favors from the Guv'nor.
15:53	Larkylouz	It seems easy enough to put a sign up in the LH when we move.
15:53	Red Quixote	off campus, we have no special abilities in teh village
15:54	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	I agree; no powers to eject griefers outside Oxbridge
15:54	Larkylouz	It seems a benefit to all if we can allow Oxbridge to grow and serve more people.
15:54	Ravelli Ormstein	we would have to set the parcel to the correct group
15:55	Red Quixote	as long as we could keep the peace, so to speak in our classes
15:55	Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter)	We have had trouble enough due to the fact that the library is outside faculty control. And some griefer seem to know that.
15:55	Larkylouz	Perhaps we could hold the meetings on Des' RL airships. ;^)
15:55	Tali Rosca	Pragmatically, unless those people served translate into income for Des, he cannot afford to give us land for free.
15:56	Camden McAndrews	If a parcel in another region is set to the Caledon Oxbridge University group, you will have all the privileges there that you do here.
15:56	Steadman Kondor	In any case, i'm glad the faculty is actively considering this - and if there are instructors here who see their classes hitting the av limit often, please keep track and continue to keep this matter active
15:56	Meora (menchor)	we did yesterday at Photo Salon
15:56	Martini Discovolante	when and if a space in the vVillage is deemed necessary, it will be properly set up for privileges.
15:56	Tali Rosca	Steadman privately owns (and pays for) a parcel in the Village, which is why we can use that freely.
15:57	Larkylouz	Ah. I see the difference.
15:57	Tali Rosca	Consider that a pretty significant donation to Caledon Oxbridge University.
15:58	Steadman Kondor	there are other deans who selfless give a lot more of time and effort and resources supporting the many parts that form the uni !
15:58	Larkylouz	I'll say! and of course, he does NOTHING else to benefit Oxbridge, ever. Not our Steadman.
15:58	Wordsmith Jarvinen	BTW, if a professor should have need to bump a person who is "away", that is appropriate.
15:58	Steadman Kondor	just a small token
15:58	Ravelli Ormstein	in 2009 we had a class room in the village too, it was an amphitheater
15:58	Martini Discovolante	we have the land as part of oxbridge already,a dn that is what should be used.
15:58	Martini Discovolante	that land belonged ot oxbridge, or NCI then, Ravelli.
15:58	Ravelli Ormstein	yes
15:59	Tali Rosca	We're about out of time.
15:59	Tali Rosca	There's one other topic I'd like to ask:
15:59	Tali Rosca	(Out of general curiosity about the Caledon community).
15:59	Tali Rosca	Does Caledon have a presence at RFL?
16:00	Red Quixote	huge
16:00	Wordsmith Jarvinen	Yes.
16:00	Martini Discovolante	they do have , i believe,
16:00	Steadman Kondor	yes, miss beth ghostraven is leading..
16:00	Martini Discovolante	i am not sure who is doing it this year.
16:00	Red Quixote	the CP are also involved
16:00	Jules Doghouse	rfl?
16:00	Tali Rosca	Relay for Life.
16:00	Jules Doghouse	ah
16:00	Martini Discovolante	Relay for LIfe, a fundraising effort of an RL org.
16:01	Tali Rosca	The cancer research fundraising.
16:01	Tali Rosca	It's traditionally one of the big SL event.s
16:01	Jules Doghouse	wvg
16:01	Wordsmith Jarvinen	It is a huge Caledon effort every year. One that people get knighted for leading.
16:01	Jules Doghouse	makes sense
16:02	Wordsmith Jarvinen	I do have a note from Geoffrey Xenobuilder about the campsite.
16:02	Tali Rosca	I just thought I'd bring it up as a reminded now that we had people gathered here; it seemed appropriate to mention, as a Caledonian event.
16:02	Tali Rosca	But with that, I'll say we're adjourned for today.
16:03	Ravelli Ormstein	yup
16:03	Gronk Seriman	Thank you, Deans!
16:03	Martini Discovolante	i would liek to mention that Oxbridge itself does not directly participate in RFL.
16:03		Jules Doghouse seconds that emoticon :)
16:03	Larkylouz	Thank you Deans, community