| 14:59 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Time to start, a bit disorganized on my part or not |
| 15:00 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
ok, Hello everyone |
| 15:00 |
Tali Rosca |
Sim stats report 21 for me. |
| 15:00 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
The is an open mic session held weekly by the Deans of Oxbridge to answer questions about Oxbridge and SL (as best we can). |
| 15:01 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Our roles are outlined at http://www.caledonoxbridge.org/qna_index.php |
| 15:03 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Who'd like to ask a question? |
| 15:04 |
KammySparkleberry |
Well if no one else has one I am having a problem with the Second Life veiwer |
| 15:04 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
yes? which one? |
| 15:05 |
KammySparkleberry |
THe most current viewer. I can't figure out how to change permissions on my friends |
| 15:05 |
Tali Rosca |
I ran into that recently. |
| 15:05 |
Tali Rosca |
It is *supposed* to be in the person's profile; there is a gear icon. |
| 15:05 |
Tali Rosca |
In the bottom of that dropdown is a "Permissions" option, which opens a popup window. |
| 15:06 |
Tali Rosca |
But for some reason, I've seen that options now showing up sometimes. |
| 15:06 |
KammySparkleberry |
yes I have no permission option |
| 15:06 |
Tali Rosca |
I am not sure under which circumstances, and what the workaround is. But that's where it *should* be. |
| 15:07 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok so just keep trying and hope it resolves itself |
| 15:07 |
Tali Rosca |
You can also reach it from the "Friends" list in your own profile. |
| 15:07 |
Tali Rosca |
Each name has a gear, which *should* include the "Permissions" option. |
| 15:07 |
KammySparkleberry |
that does not work the friends list in my profile lists no friends even though I have some |
| 15:07 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
does it? |
| 15:08 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
I don't see any gears on the names |
| 15:08 |
Tali Rosca |
Your *Profile*, and the tab with the two heads; not the friends list in the "People" UI floater. |
| 15:08 |
KammySparkleberry |
yes I know |
| 15:08 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Not on the friends list anymore, but you can open the profile and the gear is there. Open from the friends list. |
| 15:09 |
KammySparkleberry |
when I click the 2 heads icon there are no friends in the list |
| 15:09 |
Larkylouz |
I was able to get to Permissions from a friend's profile window, via the Gear. Using most recent LL viewer. |
| 15:09 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
oh, well that makes sense - of course there should be two separate friends lists with different functionality |
| 15:10 |
Tali Rosca |
I have them both in the gears in the profile friends list, and in the gear at each person's profile. But as I said, I have reliable reports that they do not always show up there. |
| 15:10 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Irony detector reports ambiguity |
| 15:10 |
KammySparkleberry |
I can drop a screen photo on you that shows the empty list. Maybe I am in the wrong place |
| 15:11 |
Tali Rosca |
Likely not. It's not like there *should* be some empty list of persons in the interface, no matter what. |
| 15:12 |
Tali Rosca |
But the profile view is known to be... temperamental, as it uses an embedded web interface, rather than "native" functionality. |
| 15:12 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
in my current beta viewer it seems to be different. there i have several symbols when i hover the avatars names in my friends lists |
| 15:12 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
the embedded web interface quite often lacks the embedding and web functionality. |
| 15:13 |
KammySparkleberry |
yes that is what my viewer does |
| 15:13 |
Tali Rosca |
You have the *symbols*, but you cannot adjust the settings from the "People" friends list. |
| 15:13 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I open up profile and click on the double head, all the "friends" are there and the gear icon. |
| 15:13 |
Tali Rosca |
(If you can, it'll be a welcome addition) |
| 15:13 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
yes, Tali, you are right |
| 15:13 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
(and a return to what the functionality was previously) |
| 15:14 |
KammySparkleberry |
nope no one showing up for me even that way |
| 15:15 |
Tali Rosca |
How does it look here: https://my.secondlife.com/settings/friends |
| 15:15 |
KammySparkleberry |
no one there either |
| 15:16 |
Tali Rosca |
Curious. That seems to be a worse glitch than average. |
| 15:16 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Does it change on a relog? |
| 15:16 |
KammySparkleberry |
no |
| 15:16 |
Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter) |
Database problem? |
| 15:17 |
KammySparkleberry |
I also cleared cache and history and relogged |
| 15:17 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
Hi Carl! |
| 15:17 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Database or DB loading problem. |
| 15:17 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Hello |
| 15:17 |
Tali Rosca |
I think we'll have to say that this is a glitch which is outside our reach. |
| 15:18 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok ty for trying |
| 15:18 |
Tali Rosca |
The two friends lists should obviously be in sync. |
| 15:18 |
Tali Rosca |
It *may* be some caching issue on LL's servers, and sort itself out. |
| 15:18 |
Tali Rosca |
But if not, it's worth raising as an actual bug. |
| 15:18 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok ty |
| 15:19 |
Tali Rosca |
Your screenshot there is pretty good documentation that it's not just some confusion; the two lists show as clearly different, side by side. |
| 15:19 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Hmmm. If someone check online not visible to you, they won't appear on the website. |
| 15:19 |
KammySparkleberry |
yes I just wasnt sure I was looking at the right 2 lists hehehehe |
| 15:19 |
KammySparkleberry |
I am 3 days old |
| 15:19 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer-Basic-Mode/Friends-lists-not-updated-in-Profile-SL-website-Anyone-please/td-p/2035161 |
| 15:17 |
Tali Rosca |
They shouldn't show up in the People floater friends list then, either. |
| 15:19 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Does anyone else have a question? |
| 15:20 |
Larkylouz |
I've been having an issue with the LL viewer that I've not been able to find in the forums. If I try to up my graphics settings past the very lowest, it crashes every.single.time.. |
| 15:20 |
Ruth (moabite) |
I do |
| 15:21 |
Larkylouz |
I've downloaded FS to try, but am quite open to other suggestions. I find the forums and other help available to give me results that are way out of datre. |
| 15:21 |
Larkylouz |
*date |
| 15:21 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Hopefully that's going into crash reports. |
| 15:21 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Larkylouz--do you have other programs that are doing crashing like that? It could be problem with your memory. |
| 15:21 |
Tali Rosca |
Have you tried opening the "Advanced" graphics settings and switching things on one at a time? |
| 15:21 |
Tali Rosca |
That way, you can zero in on just which option causes it. |
| 15:22 |
Tali Rosca |
(The slider is merely a shortcut to a batch of settings in Advanced). |
| 15:22 |
Carl Metropolitan |
One other thing you can try is going to the Beta viewer. Often that will have a completely different set of problems. Or try Firestorm. |
| 15:22 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Ruth--what was your question? |
| 15:22 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Would it be possible to reduce crowding by moving the Dean's meeting or the classes to the chat circle in the Village? |
| 15:22 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
it used to be the case that the slider controlled which settings you have access to |
| 15:23 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
e.g. you could only turn on shadows if you had the slider put up to Ultra |
| 15:23 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Selecting advanced, you have more explicit control, item by item. |
| 15:23 |
Carl Metropolitan |
We normally have enough space for classes and for people to use the tutorial. |
| 15:23 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Not today, for example |
| 15:24 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Have you seen it being a problem lately? The only times we should be asking people to leave is when they are just standing around talking. |
| 15:24 |
Carl Metropolitan |
That's what the chat circle in the village is for. Overflow. |
| 15:24 |
Ruth (moabite) |
When it is full, people who want to enter, can't. You have no stats on that. |
| 15:24 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
some months back i had problems with my viewer, when i had a web browser running too. they got in conflict, because modern web browsers render webpages on the gpu. |
| 15:25 |
Carl Metropolitan |
That's a good point. |
| 15:26 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Tali, do you know if we collect stats on how often the sim is full? |
| 15:26 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
i switched off the Hardware-side rendering in the browser to fix it, but with the next version it was generally fixed as well. |
| 15:26 |
Tali Rosca |
Oxbridge has, indeed, been redlined today. It is pretty rare, though. We tend to hit 18-ish, and those hanging around chatting leave. It's rare we peg at 20. (Though I do not have actual stats on it; it's just from what I've seen practically when I am here). |
| 15:26 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
We do. |
| 15:26 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Do you know if Marion keeps those? If we are hitting the max too often, then we might need to change something. |
| 15:26 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I know that Marion has commented before on time at or above the limit. |
| 15:26 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Well, it was just a suggestion. Something to keep in mind. |
| 15:27 |
Tali Rosca |
Do we have actual peak statistics, and not just "unique visitors"? |
| 15:27 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I think so. |
| 15:27 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
Marion explained it in one of his emails last week |
| 15:27 |
Tali Rosca |
If not, I'll include it in the Engines. It's easy enough to do. |
| 15:27 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
He at least looks at time at or above the limit. |
| 15:27 |
Carl Metropolitan |
I thought he did. |
| 15:28 |
Tali Rosca |
Though of course, we can only see if we're at 20. |
| 15:28 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Q&A has traditionally been one of the higher times. |
| 15:28 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Okay. Let's take it to an email with Marion. See if the time at 20 is increasing. |
| 15:28 |
Tali Rosca |
Not if somebody actually bounces against the edge. |
| 15:28 |
Carl Metropolitan |
If we hit 20, we can assume people are bouncing, I think. |
| 15:28 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Right, but they won't bounce at 19. |
| 15:28 |
Larkylouz |
Dean M - I have a comparatively low level computer, but it was fine until a week or so ago. and yes. I am familiar with all the graphics settings. I run everything at the very lowest possible unless I'm trying to take pictures. |
| 15:29 |
Tali Rosca |
20 is definitely a danger sign. So, noted. We'll look at the stats. |
| 15:29 |
Larkylouz |
TY Deans |
| 15:29 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Might be interesting to see the sum of Oxbridge + Chat circle occupancy. |
| 15:29 |
Carl Metropolitan |
I wonder if we track chat circle. |
| 15:30 |
Tali Rosca |
Larky, did that crashing start with the Materials viewer? |
| 15:30 |
Tali Rosca |
That was released... last-week-ish... Anybody remember exactly? |
| 15:30 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Ruth, we are of course limited on what we can do. There is no way we can afford a full sim here. |
| 15:31 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I think it was a week last Wednesday. |
| 15:31 |
Ruth (moabite) |
But the Village is a full sim and is rarely overpopulated. Just when there is a gig at the musician's collective |
| 15:31 |
Larkylouz |
Dean Rosca, yes it has been within the past week, I believe. |
| 15:31 |
KammySparkleberry |
don't know if this helps but the date on the about for my viewer is the 27th |
| 15:31 |
Niki Listern |
please excuse me I need to go outside to get packages in RL take care to all |
| 15:32 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
tc Miss Niki |
| 15:32 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
in the village there are residents paying for their parcels. so usually we may not use their region performance regularly |
| 15:32 |
Tali Rosca |
It would not be entirely surprising if the new render engine came with a new set of interesting crashes. |
| 15:32 |
Tali Rosca |
In fact, it would be surprising if it *didn't*. |
| 15:33 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Yes, its complicated. |
| 15:34 |
Tali Rosca |
Odds are it has already gone to LL as a crash report, but if and when it gets fixed... |
| 15:34 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Who else has a question? |
| 15:34 |
Ruth (moabite) |
A question about "Materials". ... |
| 15:35 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Could someone clarify what it is one must do to SEE materials vs what is needed to build with them. |
| 15:36 |
Tali Rosca |
To *see* it, you need a new viewer, and in Preferences/Graphics/Advanced, make sure "Advanced Lighting Model" is checked. |
| 15:36 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
The newer viewers, I believe. |
| 15:36 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Nods. |
| 15:36 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
(btw. the latest Firestorm don't support Materials) |
| 15:36 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Does FS support materials yet? |
| 15:36 |
Ruth (moabite) |
LOL |
| 15:36 |
Tali Rosca |
Be aware that you can set *shadows* to "None" and regain some performance. |
| 15:36 |
Ruth (moabite) |
ty |
| 15:36 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
:-) |
| 15:37 |
Tali Rosca |
Typically, Shadows are related to the Advanced Lighting Model, but you don't need to have shadows on; they eat quite a lot of performance. |
| 15:38 |
Carl Metropolitan |
I know Firestorm is planning to support materials and has already made a number of changes in their viewer towards that end. I'd check the firestorm webpage for more info. |
| 15:38 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Does advanced lighting model need to be on for all of the materials features,m or just some of them? |
| 15:38 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
There's an SL blurg on materials and the viewer here. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Get-the-New-Materials-Viewer-Today/ba-p/2051927 |
| 15:38 |
Tali Rosca |
All or nothing. |
| 15:38 |
KammySparkleberry |
related question.... I am just starting to learn to build and put textures on things. Will this materials thing change what I built before it gots in place? |
| 15:39 |
Tali Rosca |
No. Materials just add extra options. |
| 15:39 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
No, it adds to what you can accomplish by letting your add a normal map and a specular reflection map. |
| 15:40 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
you'll be able to do more *with* things, but you'll still be able to build the same way as always. |
| 15:40 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
A normal map lets you simulate a more resolved model than you actually have. |
| 15:40 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok so it isn't start all over again after it goes in place...whew that is a relief |
| 15:41 |
Tali Rosca |
I can talk at length about the theory behind materials, but this is probably not the forum :-) |
| 15:41 |
Carl Metropolitan |
One point about building with materials: watch your Land Impact. Some uses of materials can make objects take up more prims than they would normally. |
| 15:41 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Oooh. a symposium seminar....... ;) |
| 15:41 |
Tali Rosca |
It isn't *start over*, but once you start using materials, you'll probably go, "I could have done this differently". |
| 15:42 |
Tali Rosca |
But that goes for anything; you constantly learn new things and improve. |
| 15:42 |
KammySparkleberry |
I just didnt want the chair I built for myself to revert to a plywood box. You people are light years ahead of me :) |
| 15:42 |
Tali Rosca |
It certainly won't do that. |
| 15:42 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
It isn't specific to SL, but I had a link showing the use of normal maps. http://cg.tutsplus.com/tutorials/blender/sculpt-model-and-texture-a-low-poly-skull-in-blender/ |
| 15:43 |
KammySparkleberry |
ty |
| 15:43 |
KammySparkleberry |
I will study up :) |
| 15:43 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
a quick example of the difference materials can make https://my.secondlife.com/sauce.sorrowman/snapshots/51d0b4a1f1658954c9000001 |
| 15:44 |
Tali Rosca |
"You don't have permission to view that snapshot"? |
| 15:44 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
ditto |
| 15:44 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Me neither |
| 15:45 |
KammySparkleberry |
no permission for me either though that could be my other problem |
| 15:45 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
try again |
| 15:45 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I can see it, just had to login again first. |
| 15:45 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
I think it wasn't finished uploading |
| 15:45 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
better now |
| 15:45 |
Tali Rosca |
It's there now, yes. |
| 15:45 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
ah, excellent example, Sauce, and a good idea for the walkways too |
| 15:45 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
it's not perfect, but you can see that the light is affected by the stones |
| 15:45 |
Tali Rosca |
And yes, the point with normal mapping is that you can do certain types of detail a *lot* cheaper than if you build them with prims. |
| 15:46 |
KammySparkleberry |
the one on the left has the mapping? |
| 15:46 |
Carl Metropolitan |
That's impressive. |
| 15:46 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
(for anyone wondering why you can't see it inworld, i'm using temporary textures to preview it for myself, so it's not actually uploaded yet) |
| 15:47 |
Tali Rosca |
Things like cobblestone or bricks or engraving is what normal mapping eat for breakfast. |
| 15:47 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
yep :) |
| 15:47 |
Tali Rosca |
Now add some specular mapping to make those cobblestones rain-slick. |
| 15:47 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
and subtler things also - the weave of wallpaper, for example |
| 15:47 |
Tali Rosca |
Knitwear, perhaps. |
| 15:47 |
Tali Rosca |
Though it may require an excessively detailed map. |
| 15:48 |
KammySparkleberry |
neat stuff |
| 15:48 |
Ruth (moabite) |
So, two or three times as many textures per object? |
| 15:48 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
yes |
| 15:48 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
that is a downside |
| 15:49 |
Tali Rosca |
Three times, if you go all out, plus a few values. |
| 15:49 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
in a sense, but far fewer triangles. |
| 15:49 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
but hopefully it will encourage more optimised buildings practices |
| 15:49 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
argh... just wanted to show something with materials... but i'm in Firestorm right now... |
| 15:49 |
Tali Rosca |
Compared to modelling the detail with triangles, it's a big win, though. |
| 15:50 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
it's also the type of detail that a lot of people get from sculpted prims, which are a *massive* resource hog |
| 15:50 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
With ten minutes to go, are there other questions? |
| 15:50 |
Tali Rosca |
Sculpts must die! |
| 15:50 |
|
Ravelli Ormstein agrees |
| 15:50 |
|
KammySparkleberry has no idea what you are talking about |
| 15:50 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
particularly sculpted benches that collapse to nothing from a distance of 10m... :P |
| 15:51 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Sculpts are a rectangular grid of triangles. You can reshape it visually, but you can't thin or optimize. |
| 15:52 |
KammySparkleberry |
scuplt is not the same as mesh? |
| 15:52 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
And, as Tali, just pointed out, you have no control over how the mesh of a sculpty simplifies as you move away from it. |
| 15:52 |
Tali Rosca |
Sculpts are a sort of limited subset of mesh. |
| 15:52 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
sculpts were a really smart idea, but just a workaround, because there was no mesh |
| 15:52 |
Tali Rosca |
It comes with some harsh restrictions, which practically forces you to do some very sub-optimal things. |
| 15:52 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
A way of kludging an import by encoding what amounts to mesh in an image. |
| 15:53 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Using colors to represent x,y, and z offsets of a vertex from the object's center. |
| 15:53 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok |
| 15:54 |
KammySparkleberry |
so on my learning list skip sculpts and go to mesh |
| 15:54 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
precisely |
| 15:54 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
And, unlike mesh, sculpties don't have a usable physical shape (for collisions) |
| 15:54 |
Sauce Sorrowman |
sculpts are essentially obsolete. |
| 15:54 |
Carl Metropolitan |
The same knowledge of 3D modeling will help you create either. |
| 15:54 |
Ruth (moabite) |
They will only be around fo another 10 years, then |
| 15:54 |
Carl Metropolitan |
But mesh is (in most cases) better than sculpts in SL. |
| 15:54 |
KammySparkleberry |
ok |
| 15:54 |
Tali Rosca |
If you want to get technical about it, anything you see is mesh; that is how a computer draws 3D objects. In SL terms, "mesh" refers to the specific object type and import format, though. |
| 15:54 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
That's about right, Ruth. ;) |
| 15:55 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Also--if you plan to sell your stuff, always go with the new shiny :) |
| 15:55 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
If you look closely at a large, prim, disk, you can see it's approximation in polygons. |
| 15:55 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
It is a circle that isn't quite circular. |
| 15:56 |
KammySparkleberry |
Well I haven't done any serious 3D modeling in 10 years or more. TIme to dust of old rusty skills |
| 15:56 |
Tali Rosca |
Prims mesh, too. They just have very few parameters describing what the mesh looks like, and then it's mathematically generated from there. |
| 15:56 |
Tali Rosca |
Prims *are* mesh... |
| 15:56 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Time for a last question or so. |
| 15:57 |
Tali Rosca |
Weapons of math instruction. |
| 15:57 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Transporting of. |
| 15:58 |
|
Ravelli Ormstein blushes |
| 15:59 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Let they who have not triggered the false floor stone the cast first. |
| 15:59 |
Friends of Caledon Oxbridge Donation Medallion |
KammySparkleberry Resident gave a generous donation to Friends of Caledon Oxbridge to help support classes, tutorials, & tier at Caledon's Oxbridge |
| 15:59 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
i guess i clicked it while my viewer was freezing |
| 15:59 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Been there; done that. ;) |
| 16:00 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
We've run our hour. time to adjourn. |
| 16:00 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Thanks you all for coming. |
| 16:00 |
Ruth (moabite) |
Thank you, deans. |
| 16:00 |
KammySparkleberry |
heheh I just figured I had fallen through the floor again. |
| 16:00 |
KammySparkleberry |
Ty all most helpful |
| 16:00 |
Gronk Seriman |
Thank you, Deans! |
| 16:00 |
allison2489 |
:) |
| 16:00 |
Friends of Caledon Oxbridge Donation Medallion |
Moabite Resident gave a generous donation to Friends of Caledon Oxbridge to help support classes, tutorials, & tier at Caledon's Oxbridge |
| 16:00 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
next week, same time, same location |
| 16:00 |
allison2489 |
i love this time |
| 16:00 |
Carl Metropolitan |
Thank you all for coming. |
| 16:01 |
Gronk Seriman |
I hate this time. If I don't get here early, the sim is full. |
| 16:01 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Well, today more than normally. |
| 16:01 |
allison2489 |
_____? look pacman |
| 16:02 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
And, this is also a PG sim, so moving it isn't without a cost there. |
| 16:02 |
Elfbiter Skysmith (elfbiter) |
It's been unusually crowdy tonight... |
| 16:03 |
Ravelli Ormstein |
but it is nice to see such an interest into the Q&A, that is great |
| 16:03 |
Phrynne |
It has taken me 45 minutes to walk across the boundary and get here from Oxbridge Village. |