16:50 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I see 4 potential roles? Old Man, Tomas, the martian and the narrator? |
16:53 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Yes |
16:53 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
okay :) |
16:55 |
KayCooper |
Hi Word :) |
16:56 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
hi Kay :) |
16:56 |
KayCooper |
Hello :) |
16:56 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
Hallo all! |
16:56 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Welcome Ololo |
16:56 |
KayCooper |
Hi Ololo |
16:56 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
;) |
16:57 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Hi Kay and Ololo |
16:57 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Y |
16:57 |
KayCooper |
y |
16:57 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
why? |
16:57 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Welcome Ryan |
16:57 |
Ryan Dayton |
Greetings |
16:58 |
KayCooper |
Hi Ryan |
16:58 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
We will get started shortly! good to see you |
16:59 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Usually we pre-read our stories and discuss them...but tonight is a read aloud! Should be fun |
17:00 |
Ryan Dayton |
Interesting. Ive never been to something like this |
17:00 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
I read it anyway to be sure :) |
17:00 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
great Ololo! |
17:00 |
KayCooper |
/me hopes reading aloud is optional |
17:00 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
yes it is!!! |
17:01 |
KayCooper |
Ok good :) |
17:01 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
nobody has to read aloud ;) |
17:01 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Welcome to this month's sci-fi discussion. This month we are doing it as a read aloud, but reading is optional. |
17:02 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Volunteers for voice? |
17:03 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
anyone? |
17:03 |
Ryan Dayton |
hmm i cannot hear voice for some reason |
17:03 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Does everyone have the notecard for the story? |
17:03 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
/me has it |
17:04 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Ryan - you might try a relog? I do see a dot beside your name! |
17:04 |
Ryan Dayton |
okay |
17:04 |
Ryan Dayton |
dont let me hold you up though |
17:04 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Kay can you hear voice? |
17:05 |
KayCooper |
I could hear Valibrarian but not you |
17:05 |
KayCooper |
I can relog |
17:05 |
Heart Campfire Cushion - Single - Red Stripes |
Hi Wordsmith Jarvinen! Touch me to change pose. Say /1a to Adjust. |
17:05 |
KayCooper |
Yeah, he's just really quiet for me |
17:07 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Welcome Alyse |
17:07 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
my computer is being absurdly slow |
17:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Is everyone ready to begin? |
17:09 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
ready! |
17:09 |
KayCooper |
ready |
17:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Type a Y!!! |
17:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Can you hear me Elektra? |
17:09 |
Ryan Dayton |
i cannot hear voice for some reason... trying to figure it out. Going to TP my friend here in a moment |
17:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
ok Ryan |
17:09 |
Ryan Dayton |
feel free to get started though! |
17:09 |
Elektra Panthar |
yep |
17:09 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i will pull up my recording software as well if everyone is okay with it :D |
17:10 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
great! glad you are recording :) |
17:32 |
KayCooper |
whispers: Hi Phrynne |
17:32 |
Phrynne |
whispers: hi |
17:33 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
whispers: hi Prynne |
17:35 |
KayCooper |
*•.¸'*•.¸ ★ ¸.•*´¸.•* |
17:35 |
KayCooper |
.•*★¨`• Aρρlɑuѕɛ •¨`★*•. |
17:35 |
KayCooper |
¸.•*`¸.•*´ ★ `*•.¸`*•.¸ |
17:35 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Clap clap for Bradbury!!!! |
17:35 |
Phrynne |
/me claps |
17:35 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I really like the story! |
17:36 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
that was such a great story |
17:36 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Comments, discussion? |
17:36 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
My favorite part was when their hands went right through each other....very creative |
17:36 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
I haven't read much Bradbury before or other classic science fiction; it is great to have the opportunity in a group like this! |
17:37 |
KayCooper |
I like the question of how do you know which one is from the past |
17:37 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
One can't hold a cup of coffee, the other can't catch a knife. |
17:37 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
and very introspective! what is the past, what is the future, what is the present? |
17:37 |
Stranger Nightfire |
when I was in Junior High I recall that The Martian Chronicles was my favorite book |
17:37 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
Bradbury contemplating his own mortality? his own place in time? |
17:37 |
KayCooper |
And that you wouldn't want to know anyway if your world was going to end up as a bunch of ruins |
17:38 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh yes |
17:38 |
Stranger Nightfire |
will not all civilizations eventually meet that fate? |
17:38 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
it kind of reminds me of the Matrix; which pill would you take? and all that |
17:38 |
KayCooper |
True |
17:38 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Likely, Perce's Ozamandis. |
17:38 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
So many awesome metaphors and similes about time: "Time looked like snow dropping silently into a black room" |
17:38 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
which is the illusion? do you want to break the illusion if the truth is worse than the illusion |
17:38 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
whispers: And a bit of "sieze the day |
17:39 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
What did Time smell like? Like dust and clocks and people. |
17:39 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
the description of the dead black alien bodies creeped me out a bit |
17:39 |
KayCooper |
Even if the martian was a ghost, he was happy in his present moment, so that's all that really counts |
17:39 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
and...for physicists- "time does not really exist" it is just a man-made concept, right? |
17:39 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh, "What did Time smell like?" --Val, that would be a great writing prompt |
17:40 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh, also, "2001"; I heard you laugh wordsmith! |
17:40 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i was giggling too lol |
17:40 |
KayCooper |
We really should have colonized Mars by now... |
17:41 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
and the martian's year 4462853 S.E.C.- just a name for a specific time....whatever that is! |
17:41 |
KayCooper |
Years are relative |
17:41 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
I was watching Stargate the other day, and the episode pointed out that we'd have started colonizing space by now if it weren't for the Dark Ages when science was taboo/forbidden |
17:41 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
it was an interesting thought! |
17:41 |
KayCooper |
Since any civilization starts to count at different times |
17:41 |
KayCooper |
That is interesting |
17:41 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
interesting that each insisted HE was alive....and the other dead--- says a lot about what consciousness is- what it means to be alive |
17:42 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh yes! |
17:42 |
KayCooper |
If it seems real to you then that's your reality |
17:42 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I am here. I am physical. I am embodied and present. |
17:42 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
yes- the question of reality which is an awesome thing to ponder around a virtual campfire ;) |
17:42 |
KayCooper |
hehe |
17:43 |
Phrynne |
in virtual bodies made of light |
17:43 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
and the realization that they both must be right *or* wrong and that they would just have to agree to disagree |
17:43 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
and an AI (in my opinion) will never be conscious....only consciously programmed |
17:43 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
ooh, that is a good thought |
17:43 |
Stranger Nightfire |
our iteration of Earth civilization is very young |
17:43 |
KayCooper |
We seem to get in our own way an awful lot |
17:44 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
We do. |
17:44 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i do think that if AI circuitry and programming becomes as complex as the human brain (which i guess is like a bio-computer? then perhaps an AI could achieve consciousness |
17:44 |
KayCooper |
I would agree with that |
17:44 |
Stranger Nightfire |
but probably civilization on Earth goes back many tens of thousands of years |
17:44 |
KayCooper |
I think there is a lot we don't know, and we don't seem interested in finding out |
17:44 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
what would we do if an AI insisted it was conscious? even if programmed to do so. A fun thought experiment on morality. Would you shut down an AI capable of asking you to spare its life? |
17:45 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
About 10,000 years ago wheat came into being. |
17:45 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
So far, from what I have read, AI will be able to construct knowledge much faster than a human- but would still only achieve that knowledge through programming and would only make decisions based on logic which is a different kind of reasoning than we have as sentient, conscious beings. |
17:46 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
haha, yes, perhaps we shouldn't start creating artificial life until we understand our own lives a bit better! |
17:46 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
You can about such an occurrence in Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". |
17:46 |
Phrynne |
yes, Mike the sentient computer |
17:47 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
I think it is possible, Val, that our definition of AI may change and its capabilities may change as technology becomes more advanced---perhaps technology we cannot even imagine today |
17:47 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
"Hello, Man, my first friend." |
17:47 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
an AI certainly is embodied...and can reason but nobody can explain what makes a human conscious- not any scientific research- cool that some things will remain a mystery |
17:48 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
We do have Asimov's laws of robotics...hehe a start |
17:48 |
Stranger Nightfire |
computers do not have lungs to sigh with, or hearts to throb, or guts to contract, so they will not be emotional intelligences as are humans |
17:48 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Did you like the way we read the story aloud? this is the first time we have done it that way |
17:48 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh yes--wondering what makes a human conscious reminds me of Tron Legacy; where a new type of being was given life within the computer |
17:48 |
KayCooper |
But what if they have other means of expressing the same things, like their lights flashing in different ways |
17:49 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
it went very well |
17:49 |
Stranger Nightfire |
though perhaps if desired they could be given the equivalent of those things |
17:49 |
Ryan Dayton |
Will there be another read aloud? |
17:49 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
@stranger -- it is possible they will have such in the future; but who knows? |
17:50 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh, Bicentennial Man |
17:50 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
where a robot becomes human |
17:50 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
a fascinating concept |
17:50 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I think it highly likely we will do another such. Val and I seem to have fun with them. |
17:50 |
Phrynne |
that one was too sad. |
17:50 |
Stranger Nightfire |
even a lot of the neurons in humans are in the heart and in the gut |
17:50 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I recently interviewed a woman who was a pioneer in AI during world War II- she was brilliant. She looked me straight in the eye and said NOBODY knows what consciousness is. She was adamant that AI is simply algorithmic pathways....without imagination. |
17:51 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
ahh yes, scientists!! |
17:51 |
Stranger Nightfire |
i have heard it estimated that our digestive system has about as much intelligence as a cat |
17:51 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
hmmm |
17:51 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
science fiction often precedes science! |
17:51 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
The AI expert says algorithms have always been used but the computer age is making them seem like some new fantastic breakthrough- |
17:52 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i studied that concept a lot in college; absolutely loved it |
17:52 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
That explains why a cat is like a digestive system -- always seeking food. |
17:52 |
Ryan Dayton |
lol |
17:52 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
lol |
17:52 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I think since we are here in a virtual world- we sometimes understand reality in ways that people who have only experienced physical reality may not understand.... and that makes us a bit more imaginative? or less set in stone about ideas |
17:52 |
Phrynne |
gives a whole new meaning to catgut strings, and why my violin is sometimes hungry |
17:52 |
Ryan Dayton |
there are lots of neurons in your gut |
17:53 |
Ryan Dayton |
IBS is sometimes treatable with antidepressants |
17:53 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i am a dreamer and idealist when it comes to personality tests lol, so I drive science folks nutso |
17:53 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
That same AI expert talked about the relationship with the gut and the brain! |
17:54 |
Ryan Dayton |
serrotonin reuptake inhibitors can relieve IBS symptoms. pretty interesting |
17:54 |
KayCooper |
Everything connects to everything else it seems |
17:55 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
yes Kay! all is connected- love that concept |
17:55 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
there is also a link between anxiety and IBS, etc. and all kinds of physical symptoms, so I do wonder if treating anxiety/depression with the SSRIs is what actually helps |
17:55 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Our next literary study will be THURS Sept 12th 5pm over at Caledon. |
17:56 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Wordsmith- maybe we can find another read aloud then or soon?! |
17:56 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
*six degrees of guts instead of kevin bacon |
17:56 |
Stranger Nightfire |
after heart transplants people seem to get personality transplants from the donor |
17:56 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I'm sure we can Val. |
17:56 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh that's right! |
17:56 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
and the power of prayer is a demonstrated phenomena |
17:57 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
one of those, what exactly influences our bodies, minds, and the universe |
17:57 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
quantum physics, yummy |
17:58 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Quantum physics is suppose to change everything! tech inside us -- and nanotechnology is mind blowing, right? |
17:58 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
:D :D :D |
17:58 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
aye |
17:59 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
One aspect people miss about quantum experiments is that there is no ambient light. |
17:59 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh interesting |
18:00 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh, something else great to ponder about the story is the significance of the old man |
18:01 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
So you throw a photon at something and its as big as the something and disturbs it. It is not, per se, the observer but what you have to do to get an observation -- about like throwing a couch at a refrigerator to see if the refrigerator is there. |
18:01 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
he was in such a tiny part of the story |
18:01 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
and yet his words persist |
18:01 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
teehee wordsmith--best analogy ever |
18:02 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Alyse- I had not thought about the significance of the old man in the story! interesting |
18:02 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
he's an excuse to introduce the setting |
18:03 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
"I came here last year I wouldn’t expect nothing, nor ask nothing, nor be surprised at nothing." |
18:03 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
And a philosophy of expect the unexpected. |
18:04 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
and from the perspective of an outsider- not connected to the two who collide in reality maybe |
18:04 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
“I’m not surprised at anything anymore,” said the old man. “I’m just looking. I’m just experiencing. If you can’t take Mars for what she is, you might as well go back to Earth. Everything’s crazy up here, the soil, the air, the canals, the natives (I never saw any yet, but I hear they’re around), the clocks |
18:04 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
massive overshadow for the entire story! |
18:05 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
"Even my clock acts funny. Even time is crazy up " |
18:05 |
KayCooper |
He really did foreshadow the whole thing didn't he |
18:06 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
a friend of a friend works for the rover missions. He told me they have special watches made for them going on martian time |
18:06 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oooh awesome! |
18:06 |
KayCooper |
cool |
18:06 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
and they adjust their shifts on martian time rather earth |
18:06 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
rather than |
18:06 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Of all the sections in the Martian Chronicles, this is the one I've always remembered. Feeling the cold on the back of my neck and it's there. |
18:07 |
KayCooper |
And if they're ever late for something they can just say they were on Martian time :) |
18:07 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
Were all of the sections written around 1950? |
18:07 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
:D |
18:07 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
When 2001 was super futuristic! |
18:07 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I believe so. |
18:07 |
KayCooper |
I have a copy of the Martian Chronicles on my shelf somewhere |
18:07 |
KayCooper |
Read it ages ago, didn't remember this one |
18:07 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
(smiles at Kay) |
18:08 |
KayCooper |
I don't remember much of it to be honest, except for a story that recreated the house of usher...something like that |
18:08 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
"Tomás raised his hand and thought Hello! automatically but did not move his lips, for this was a Martian. But Tomás had swum in blue rivers on Earth, with strangers passing on the road, and eaten in strange houses with strange people, and his weapon had always been his smile." Not sure if this shows the wonderfulness of countryfolk or folk in the 1950s; but a lot people today would encounter a Martian and not have the same reaction |
18:08 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
My mom's from a rural town in Ohio, and the folks there always wave at you, even if you're a stranger |
18:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
good point- country hospitality :) |
18:09 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
but in CA, not so much! |
18:09 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
as opposed to brisk urban looking away or staring into phones! |
18:09 |
KayCooper |
Where I live, half the people I pass when taking a walk completely ignore me |
18:10 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Yes |
18:10 |
KayCooper |
It's funny how hard people work to pretend you're not there so you don't have to say hi |
18:10 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
it's an interesting mix; I said "hi" to a mother and her daughter at a library once because i sat down outside at a table nearby and she just looked at me like i was crazy and didn't say anything |
18:10 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
yes Kay- half I see are literally staring at a phone even when crossing a street |
18:10 |
Stranger Nightfire |
the usual reaction of people encountering ETs is to fear them |
18:10 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh goodness, yes--please don't look at your phone while crossing the street! i feel like we shouldn't have to say this, lol |
18:11 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
the physical world can be isolating and yet here we intimately sit around a virtual campfire! talking- crazier than Mars |
18:11 |
KayCooper |
I think people are just really afraid of other people |
18:11 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh i just remembered, this guy's from 2001, and we didn't really have smartphones then, so i guess i understand why his first reaction wasn't to take a picture, hahahaha |
18:11 |
KayCooper |
I kinda get that...I'm not the most outgoing myself |
18:11 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
no kidding! No selfie with the Martian |
18:12 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i've found i'm much happier around people in my new little neighborhood in Sacramento where there's just a few people walking around the park; as opposed to an apartment complex in San Jose where there was always a ton of people around no matter what you were doing |
18:12 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I must head out.....and I hope we have this much fun next month! Great story and great conversation |
18:12 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
oh yes--thanks so much everyong! |
18:12 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Well, we've done a good hour. I don't have another story lined up yet but will shortly. |
18:13 |
KayCooper |
Great job on the reading everyone! |
18:13 |
Valibrarian Gregg |
I look forward to the next one. Have a great night! thanks all |
18:13 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
Thank you to the readers! |
18:13 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
wordsmith--is there a good place for me to send you the raw video footage? |
18:13 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Thank you all for coming. |
18:13 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
i can also put a link on a notecard and send it to you in-world once it's uploaded to Google Drive |
18:13 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
WordsmithJarvinen@gmail.com |
18:14 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
excellent--I'll get that sent to you right away :D |
18:14 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
I'll capture the text from today. |
18:14 |
Alyse - CVL Assistant Director (alysedunavantjones) |
*waves and poofs* |
18:14 |
Ololo Petya (olopierpa) |
Good night beasts and people! |
18:14 |
KayCooper |
Night everyone :) |
18:15 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Journey well. |
18:15 |
Wordsmith Jarvinen |
Watch your time. |