CVL-Caledon Literary Group Transcript for 2018-05-10
Arthur C. Clarke — The Star
| 16:41 | Helena Kiama | Hello Wordsmith |
| 16:41 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi, Val :) |
| 16:41 | Valibrarian Gregg | hello and Welcome |
| 16:41 | CVL single cushion akea w anims 082217 | Hi Wordsmith Jarvinen! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust. |
| 16:41 | Valibrarian Gregg | glad to see you! |
| 16:42 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Likewise |
| 16:42 | Valibrarian Gregg | Just typing up a notecard and we will begin soon |
| 16:42 | Valibrarian Gregg | Feel free to invite anyone you think might be interested in our discussion :) |
| 16:43 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Let me give you a notecard giver to rez, with the notecard I put together. |
| 16:44 | Valibrarian Gregg | sure!! |
| 16:45 | Second Life | You have added "Library Land (CVL)" to your Landmarks folder. |
| 16:46 | Valibrarian Gregg | awesome ty! |
| 16:46 | Valibrarian Gregg | Is that a good location? should I move it? |
| 16:49 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | That's fine |
| 16:50 | Valibrarian Gregg | Sending out a few last minute reminders/ |
| 16:50 | Valibrarian Gregg | Looking good, Andrea |
| 16:52 | Helena Kiama | Hello Andrea |
| 16:52 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | waves |
| 16:52 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi Andrea. |
| 16:54 | Helena Kiama | yes |
| 16:54 | Helena Kiama | can hear you both very clear |
| 16:55 | Helena Kiama | Hey Dae |
| 16:56 | Dae Miami | ok sounds good |
| 16:56 | Valibrarian Gregg | Welcome Jade |
| 16:56 | Helena Kiama | Hello Jade |
| 16:57 | Dae Miami | Hi Jade and Helena |
| 16:57 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | Hello Everyone :) |
| 16:57 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | ty Val :) |
| 16:57 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | I can hear |
| 17:00 | Valibrarian Gregg | https://sites.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/TheStar.pdf |
| 17:00 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Another non-pdf link https://alumni.kcl.ac.uk/the-star |
| 17:01 | Helena Kiama | Hello Savage |
| 17:02 | Valibrarian Gregg | Welcome Savage |
| 17:02 | Savage Taurus | hello hello |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | I hope everyone had a chance to read The Star- by Arthur D. Clarke |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | https://sites.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/TheStar.pdf |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | cool! We might want to read another by him....we can discuss maybe at the end of our time? |
| 17:03 | Helena Kiama | Either is fine with me? |
| 17:03 | Dae Miami | y |
| 17:03 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | y |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | Can everyone hear? |
| 17:03 | Savage Taurus | I can |
| 17:04 | Dae Miami | voice is fine with me |
| 17:04 | Valibrarian Gregg | Please click on the object in front of me for the discussion questions. :) |
| 17:04 | Savage Taurus | this story has been on my reading list for a while, because other writers have suggested reading it |
| 17:05 | Valibrarian Gregg | 3,000 light years away from earth, right? |
| 17:05 | Dae Miami | 1 light year = 6 trillion miles |
| 17:05 | Savage Taurus | yes, so the event happened 6000 years ago and was seen 3000 years ago |
| 17:05 | Valibrarian Gregg | oh wow, Dae- that is FAR! |
| 17:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | Well- Stephen Hawking explained that time is man-made...but a way to measure |
| 17:06 | Savage Taurus | in one year, light travels 1 lightyear |
| 17:07 | Savage Taurus | so the story must be happening somewhere around 3000 AD |
| 17:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | The tech has reached outside where we are right now..... and it makes me think the time travel becomes possible (in this story). |
| 17:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | Time travel has been fascinating to us for years (Hawking said it would kill a person if it were possible). |
| 17:09 | Dae Miami | wb Helena |
| 17:09 | Helena Kiama | ty |
| 17:09 | Savage Taurus | he mentions that the Jesuit order was started "a thousand years ago" but would be 1500 years before |
| 17:09 | Helena Kiama | The technology is more of a backdrop |
| 17:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | The story was first published in 1955- so the technology was really futuristic. |
| 17:10 | Valibrarian Gregg | more philosophical than scientific maybe? |
| 17:10 | Savage Taurus | its funny that they have faster than light travel, but still use magnetic tape to store data :P |
| 17:10 | Valibrarian Gregg | I think Clarke's biggest theme here is the "crisis of faith". |
| 17:10 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | Did it send out a beacon? |
| 17:11 | Helena Kiama | I think it was important that it was so very far away. That to him, why would God do this so far away for an event here on earth. |
| 17:11 | Savage Taurus | thats true...in I Robot, both the cop and the robot have a crisis of faith |
| 17:11 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes- Helena- I agree he is questioning a caring God |
| 17:12 | Valibrarian Gregg | So the distance means that it is too far from Earth to hurt us here? |
| 17:12 | Savage Taurus | yea |
| 17:13 | Savage Taurus | do they mention how long it took them to get there...perhaps they used a wormhole, or some sort warp drive |
| 17:13 | Helena Kiama | But perhaps Clarke did not know that back then. Perhaps he thought we'd overcome it by then. |
| 17:14 | Valibrarian Gregg | Clarke invents a story where God has chosen the same star (Bethlehem) to both destroy a planet and save another. It is a paradox. |
| 17:15 | Helena Kiama | And probably destroyed many planets |
| 17:15 | Valibrarian Gregg | Do you think some readers would find this story disturbing or even blasphemous? |
| 17:16 | Savage Taurus | this is making the assumption that God activity destroys stars |
| 17:16 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | Well the Jesuit's vision is "To find God in all things." Did he find God on the Star? |
| 17:16 | Savage Taurus | actively |
| 17:16 | Valibrarian Gregg | hhhmmm- I think he wanted to prove his faith but instead it was shaken. So that would not be confirmation bias. anyone agree? |
| 17:16 | Valibrarian Gregg | He ends up not even being sure he believes in God. |
| 17:16 | Helena Kiama | Agree. |
| 17:17 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | he believes the new information, which is why the crisis. |
| 17:17 | Savage Taurus | they mention that they have found other lost civilizations before, implying that there are many throughout the galaxy |
| 17:17 | Helena Kiama | or he'd have to accept a God that would destroy regardless to accomplishing something. |
| 17:17 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | As a scientist, he can't deny it or explain it away. |
| 17:17 | Valibrarian Gregg | good point Savage |
| 17:17 | Valibrarian Gregg | The astrophysicist (priest)’s faith is shaken because of the apparent capriciousness of God. If one were to believe in God, how can His decision to destroy with the same Star of Bethlehem be explained and still maintain faith? |
| 17:17 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | I wonder if he believed at all...and now I am putting things in the book that aren't there. :) |
| 17:18 | Valibrarian Gregg | I think, if he were to still believe in God....it would be that mere humans can never understand. AND that death is not the enemy if one believes in eternal life. |
| 17:19 | Helena Kiama | and there would be those that would believe that way, Val. |
| 17:19 | Savage Taurus | well thats really the biggest mistake the narrator is making, that death is final, which a Christian would not believe |
| 17:19 | Helena Kiama | So perhaps the author's faith was not that determined. |
| 17:19 | Valibrarian Gregg | Do you think science and religious faith are often at odds? Can they be merged & can a scientist have faith in God? |
| 17:19 | Savage Taurus | so Clarke seems to be projecting his own bias onto the character |
| 17:19 | Dae Miami | I guess I did not read this deep into it. I liked the science of the story and how he tied it into the Bethlehem star |
| 17:21 | Helena Kiama | Matrix, :) |
| 17:22 | Valibrarian Gregg | haha- Yes like the Twilight Zone episode where we are simply living in a child's doll house or something |
| 17:22 | Helena Kiama | yes, Val. |
| 17:22 | Helena Kiama | So is SL the dream within a dream? |
| 17:23 | Savage Taurus | if civilizations are emerging and dying all the time, then any one civilization isn't that significant, and we all have souls that are eternal so death isn't final |
| 17:23 | Valibrarian Gregg | Some might find it that way! |
| 17:24 | Valibrarian Gregg | excellent Savage |
| 17:24 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | I agree Savage |
| 17:24 | Valibrarian Gregg | SL, to me, is like entering a metaphor and going "beyond" the physical....just as real as the physical |
| 17:24 | Dae Miami | how would you detect that civilization? |
| 17:24 | Helena Kiama | and they are finding that conditions on earth are very rare. |
| 17:25 | Savage Taurus | all the variable in that equation are unknowns |
| 17:25 | Savage Taurus | variables |
| 17:25 | Savage Taurus | but we do know that the universe is really really big |
| 17:26 | Savage Taurus | they should have used 8 track |
| 17:26 | Valibrarian Gregg | haha |
| 17:27 | Helena Kiama | hehehe |
| 17:27 | Valibrarian Gregg | Like in The Time Machine (movie) - there are no books....just those "rings"- media is constantly changing formats |
| 17:27 | Helena Kiama | nods |
| 17:27 | Dae Miami | DVD is rapidly becoming obsolete |
| 17:27 | Valibrarian Gregg | a really advanced civilization might be able to figure out old school media formats! |
| 17:28 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes no more CD's or DVDs and when everything is digital....in the cloud- it is hard to keep it organized- It seems to "not really exist" |
| 17:28 | Helena Kiama | One definition of "The cloud" : Someone else's computer. |
| 17:29 | Savage Taurus | haha yes, Helena |
| 17:29 | Valibrarian Gregg | I am not familiar with that episode of Star Trek |
| 17:29 | Helena Kiama | Say that again Wordsworth? |
| 17:29 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | I like that Helena :) |
| 17:29 | Helena Kiama | Oh yes! |
| 17:29 | Helena Kiama | I remember that one. |
| 17:30 | Helena Kiama | He had grandchildren before the end. |
| 17:30 | Savage Taurus | oh yes, I remember that one |
| 17:30 | Helena Kiama | nods, and he was chosen to "share" in their "existence" so someone would remember them. |
| 17:30 | Helena Kiama | I've watched it 2 or 3 times. |
| 17:31 | Helena Kiama | nods |
| 17:31 | Valibrarian Gregg | It is fascinating when Science Fiction raises philosophical questions that help us dig deep into what it means to be human. |
| 17:32 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-making-of-star-trek-the-next-generations-greatest-1786330645 |
| 17:32 | Dae Miami | Science fiction gives us ideas of what may be coming |
| 17:32 | Helena Kiama | We are part of the universe. |
| 17:33 | Valibrarian Gregg | The bits of the blown up civilization.....ashes to ashes dust to dust |
| 17:33 | Savage Taurus | supernova are necessary to create the elements needed to create life |
| 17:33 | Helena Kiama | ahhh, nods |
| 17:33 | Savage Taurus | everything about iron |
| 17:33 | Valibrarian Gregg | So we actually ARE made of star dust!? |
| 17:33 | Savage Taurus | above |
| 17:33 | Savage Taurus | yes |
| 17:33 | Valibrarian Gregg | /me thought it was just a Joni Mitchell song |
| 17:33 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | very interesting |
| 17:34 | Dae Miami | Hi Synnove |
| 17:34 | Helena Kiama | We are connected to everything, everywhere. |
| 17:34 | Savage Taurus | stars can only fuse up to iron in their cores |
| 17:34 | Valibrarian Gregg | Welcome Synnove |
| 17:34 | Synnove Helgerud | hi |
| 17:34 | Dae Miami | come join us |
| 17:34 | Dae Miami | please |
| 17:35 | Valibrarian Gregg | the circle of life- beyond earth and across the universe |
| 17:35 | Savage Taurus | God let Jesus die so that the world could be saved |
| 17:35 | Valibrarian Gregg | I don't think the story really rules out God. |
| 17:35 | Savage Taurus | so there is symmetry that a civilization died to herald his birth |
| 17:35 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | With, according to this story, planning thousands of years in advance. |
| 17:36 | Helena Kiama | and the author had to decide which way he would believe, as would each person. |
| 17:36 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Which ties in to the entire free-will versus predetermination argument. |
| 17:37 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | (not going to go there, however) |
| 17:37 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | giggles...good call |
| 17:37 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | :) |
| 17:37 | Savage Taurus | this story sounds more like an atheist trying to disprove religion, rather than a reason for a religious person to lose faith |
| 17:37 | Helena Kiama | So I think the story asks the reader to think about this more deeply themselves, and make their own decision. |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | I think the astrophysicist (priest) is deeply shaken but the reader does not have to be--- makes it a really good story- not preachy! |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes Helena |
| 17:39 | Valibrarian Gregg | Maybe I have seen this Twilight Zone episode but I cannot remember-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_(The_Twilight_Zone) |
| 17:39 | Savage Taurus | the coincidence makes for a good story, but it not as profound as Clark intends it to be |
| 17:39 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And just as a Clarke balancing act. Here's and audio version of The Nine Billion Names of God, another short story. |
| 17:40 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRJCWFu3Qw |
| 17:40 | Valibrarian Gregg | Interesting Savage...but perhaps it was more startling back in 1955? We have come a long way |
| 17:40 | Savage Taurus | thats a good point |
| 17:40 | Valibrarian Gregg | ty for the link Wordsmith |
| 17:41 | Savage Taurus | though most people are probably as narrow-minded now as they were back then. You can see it on the internet all the time |
| 17:41 | Savage Taurus | they are just narrow-minded in different ways |
| 17:41 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | On the notecard, I've included some other short stories, most of them coming with a bit of a twist. |
| 17:41 | Valibrarian Gregg | Clarke did have quite an imagination! I remember when I first saw the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey- did not read it and wonder how it follows Clark's version |
| 17:42 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes!! Should we look at those suggested short stories and choose one for next month on June 14th? |
| 17:42 | Dae Miami | sure |
| 17:42 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The game of rat and dragon is likely the most standard sci-fi, but interesting with a bit of insecurity of the narrator and the interaction with cats. |
| 17:42 | Dae Miami | and I can let Birchtree know |
| 17:43 | Valibrarian Gregg | This one: The Game Of Rat And Dragon - Cordwainer Smith text - https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29614/29614-h/29614-h.htm audio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJmHZ9aT3W0 |
| 17:43 | Dae Miami | so that is what we are discussing next month |
| 17:43 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | Just reading a little of his bio...Clarke identified himself as an atheist. |
| 17:44 | Valibrarian Gregg | oh did he!?! Ty Jade |
| 17:44 | Valibrarian Gregg | Does everyone agree that we should read The Game of Rat and Dragon ---- for June? |
| 17:44 | Dae Miami | fine with me |
| 17:44 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | But one willing to write about the struggle of balance. |
| 17:44 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | yes |
| 17:44 | Helena Kiama | yes |
| 17:45 | Savage Taurus | sounds good |
| 17:45 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Maybe pick one other also |
| 17:45 | Dae Miami | The star took most of tonight |
| 17:45 | Valibrarian Gregg | one other for July you mean? |
| 17:45 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Or June. |
| 17:45 | Dae Miami | I think one a month is good |
| 17:46 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The Star was more complex than the others |
| 17:46 | Valibrarian Gregg | well- as long as they are not too long......people are so busy! |
| 17:46 | Dae Miami | true |
| 17:46 | Dae Miami | did we want to pick one for July now too |
| 17:46 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | They're all short. |
| 17:47 | Dae Miami | ok |
| 17:48 | Helena Kiama | sounds good |
| 17:48 | Dae Miami | ok what is the url for that |
| 17:48 | Dae Miami | can i get one of those ncs |
| 17:48 | Dae Miami | sure |
| 17:48 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | ty |
| 17:49 | Helena Kiama | I liked the questions Wordsmith had. |
| 17:50 | Savage Taurus | I think there are at least 3 possible assumptions for The Star: 1) God actively destroyed a civilization, 2) it was just a coincidence, 3) it was going to happen anyway, and God just tweaked the timing to help jump-start his next project |
| 17:50 | Helena Kiama | Interesting Savage |
| 17:50 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Good summary Savage |
| 17:51 | Valibrarian Gregg | excellent Savage (and who are we to question God)? ;) |
| 17:51 | Helena Kiama | I love sci-fi! |
| 17:51 | Helena Kiama | I like how it touches on the human condition in a world of change. |
| 17:52 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes- I hope we continue with a sci-fi genre :) |
| 17:52 | Dae Miami | me too |
| 17:52 | Helena Kiama | Many of the sci-fi authors back then knew each other and worked together. |
| 17:52 | Dae Miami | I have always loved reading sci-fi as a teenager |
| 17:53 | Helena Kiama | Ardath Mayhar wrote sci-fi stories. |
| 17:53 | Helena Kiama | She was my writing teacher. :) |
| 17:54 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | yay! |
| 17:54 | Helena Kiama | Good to see you Dae! |
| 17:54 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | Nice to meet you |
| 17:54 | Savage Taurus | The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas |
| 17:54 | Helena Kiama | Nite Dae |
| 17:54 | Helena Kiama | yup, got the notecard |
| 17:54 | Savage Taurus | is a really good short story by Ursula Le Guin |
| 17:55 | Helena Kiama | ohhh, good Savage |
| 17:55 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes! Excellent choice for our first read! |
| 17:55 | Helena Kiama | I like listening to new perspectives too |
| 17:55 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | yes I was too, Helena :) |
| 17:56 | Savage Taurus | this group is a really good idea |
| 17:56 | Helena Kiama | No, I have not. |
| 17:56 | Valibrarian Gregg | Virtually Dead by Peter Mays |
| 17:57 | ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) | oh no |
| 18:01 | Savage Taurus | yes |
| 18:02 | Savage Taurus | this is the reason I enjoy tabletop roleplay more than a fully immersive MMO |
| 18:02 | Savage Taurus | I still prefer text :P |
| 18:02 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes for most things....text is great |
| 18:02 | Valibrarian Gregg | https://vhill.edublogs.org/2018/01/10/virtual-worlds-vs-virtual-reality-a-comparison-of-immersive-experiences/ |
| 18:03 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | My pleasure. |
| 18:03 | Savage Taurus | good night everyone |
| 18:03 | Helena Kiama | Yes Savage, you use your mind and imagination more in a tabletop roleplay game. |
| 18:04 | Savage Taurus | :) |
| 18:04 | Savage Taurus | take care |